Reply to: Oil and gas sector - IR35

[duffy78]

Worley here, it is indeed PAYE or goodbye.

[Fred Bloggs]

Subsea 7, Wood & Fluor are offering outside contracts for supply chain roles. I can't say for IT which is most of this forum.

Thanks. In process engineering here. A Wood recruiter couldn't (more likely wouldn't) tell me if a role with them would be inside or outside. Role embedded within a BP FEED project client side team. I reckoned probably caught. So I told them I wasn't interested.

Besides that, they told me the rate, which was pathetic.

[Coolshot]

Subsea 7, Wood & Fluor are offering outside contracts for supply chain roles. I can't say for IT which is most of this forum.

[Fred Bloggs]

Worley - PAYE or leave by March end option given to contractors. Anyone at Worley can expand on this?

I think. Seems there's only you left. The rest of us gave up on the industry.

[eazy]

Worley - PAYE or leave by March end option given to contractors. Anyone at Worley can expand on this?

[Fred Bloggs]

Shameless bump of this thread.

It's almost a year since the last post. What's the latest IR35 situation with operators and service companies? Thanks.

[AndrewK]

Shell - IR35 inside. I think all new contracts from 2021.
BP - IR35 inside.

[sludgesurfer]

Bumping this to see if any O&G clients are taking a different approach to last year.

My main client has just provided an outside SDS. Offshore project but only likely to last for another few months. My other is considered a small company per the rules.

As for the others I'm hearing about through the grapevine (Worley, Petrofac, BP, CAN), it seems like there's little change from assessments made last year.

[Fred Bloggs]

My client has now restarted offshore project work, albeit with reduced numbers.

I travelled offshore for the first time a couple of days back. Aberdeen is a weird place right now. Like most places I guess, it felt like a town in stasis.

I'm still hearing the same anecdotes of layoffs and rate cuts but nothing different from above. With brent at $40, some of the more dire predictions haven't taken hold (yet). Few are working in the offices - even the pipeline systems are being monitored from people's houses with the odd key personnel at the office panel.

The huge "trump tower" offices some of these operators and service companies built back in the good times look like edifices of a bygone era.

The entire operating company that I am with has been working from home since the panic set in. Given that our off shore, on shore, pipeline, power generation etc facilities are several thousand kilometres away from where we sit, being at home rather than the office is a 100% non event. The company has recognised it and is reducing it's office space here by 50% saving a couple of million or so $$$ a year in the process. It's simply business as usual for us.

[sludgesurfer]

My client has now restarted offshore project work, albeit with reduced numbers.

I travelled offshore for the first time a couple of days back. Aberdeen is a weird place right now. Like most places I guess, it felt like a town in stasis.

I'm still hearing the same anecdotes of layoffs and rate cuts but nothing different from above. With brent at $40, some of the more dire predictions haven't taken hold (yet). Few are working in the offices - even the pipeline systems are being monitored from people's houses with the odd key personnel at the office panel.

The huge "trump tower" offices some of these operators and service companies built back in the good times look like edifices of a bygone era.

[Fred Bloggs]

Understanding BP's recent comms to personnel re. North Sea deferments (i.e. almost all projects / wells postponed to be re-assessed in 2021 for potential late 2021 or 2022 resumption) indicates to me that if you're not in Ops then you're about to become surplus to requirements. Some former colleagues of mine contracting at BP have recently left and the expectation within Dyce HQ is that staff cuts will be deep after Looney's protected period. This obviously has a terrible follow on impact for the engineering + installation contractors as is already starting to filter through.

More generally, after the last crash and huge cull I saw a lot of good people (30s, well educated and lots of experience) decide that it was a time for a change and they made their move into other industries (pharma, defence, manufacturing) as soon as they could. I moved out of what I did into another specialism that was more industry agnostic and have recently starting working outside of oil for the first time in a decade. The main thing the oil game had was that the money was really good, from what I'm experiencing elsewhere, you can get the same if you have the right skills or are willing to get them.

It's hard to see anything but large sustained contraction, with terrible repercussions for a lot of people and for Aberdeen's economy. Good when it lasted right enough!

My true concern is that we are already this close (fingers 1mm apart) to another Piper Alpha style incident. The ongoing campaigns to hack and slash at what were until recently called essential safety critical preventive maintenance tasks is extremely concerning. And it's not only me who is worried.

[Fred Bloggs]

I agree that if you find a fairly niche market you'd probably be on similar money. Still it was much easier to earn decent money in O&G and know / do very little, the amount of "engineers" I met over around 10 years who weren't very bright is astonishing. In the end I just got bored of projects which were all very similar and not very challenging, so I switched to defense and even though it's good money I can't believe there's an industry doing things slower than O&G.

If you want to see slow, then move into the nuclear industry. It's not uncommon for people to work their entire career in the nuclear industry and never see a single project completed and in production.

[dsc]

More generally, after the last crash and huge cull I saw a lot of good people (30s, well educated and lots of experience) decide that it was a time for a change and they made their move into other industries (pharma, defence, manufacturing) as soon as they could. I moved out of what I did into another specialism that was more industry agnostic and have recently starting working outside of oil for the first time in a decade. The main thing the oil game had was that the money was really good, from what I'm experiencing elsewhere, you can get the same if you have the right skills or are willing to get them.

It's hard to see anything but large sustained contraction, with terrible repercussions for a lot of people and for Aberdeen's economy. Good when it lasted right enough!

I agree that if you find a fairly niche market you'd probably be on similar money. Still it was much easier to earn decent money in O&G and know / do very little, the amount of "engineers" I met over around 10 years who weren't very bright is astonishing. In the end I just got bored of projects which were all very similar and not very challenging, so I switched to defense and even though it's good money I can't believe there's an industry doing things slower than O&G.

[Highland]

Present (not UK) operating company I am in has announced both CAPEX and OPEX reductions of 30% for 2020. Doesn't look good for temporary workers and I expect older staff guys to be asked if they fancy doing a bit more gardening. Things never really recovered after 2014/15. There aren't enough people to do anything properly today. Goodness knows how things will be after the inevitable night of the long knives. We already had one in June 2019 and another even more severe one seems inevtable.

Understanding BP's recent comms to personnel re. North Sea deferments (i.e. almost all projects / wells postponed to be re-assessed in 2021 for potential late 2021 or 2022 resumption) indicates to me that if you're not in Ops then you're about to become surplus to requirements. Some former colleagues of mine contracting at BP have recently left and the expectation within Dyce HQ is that staff cuts will be deep after Looney's protected period. This obviously has a terrible follow on impact for the engineering + installation contractors as is already starting to filter through.

More generally, after the last crash and huge cull I saw a lot of good people (30s, well educated and lots of experience) decide that it was a time for a change and they made their move into other industries (pharma, defence, manufacturing) as soon as they could. I moved out of what I did into another specialism that was more industry agnostic and have recently starting working outside of oil for the first time in a decade. The main thing the oil game had was that the money was really good, from what I'm experiencing elsewhere, you can get the same if you have the right skills or are willing to get them.

It's hard to see anything but large sustained contraction, with terrible repercussions for a lot of people and for Aberdeen's economy. Good when it lasted right enough!

[Fred Bloggs]

Present (not UK) operating company I am in has announced both CAPEX and OPEX reductions of 30% for 2020. Doesn't look good for temporary workers and I expect older staff guys to be asked if they fancy doing a bit more gardening. Things never really recovered after 2014/15. There aren't enough people to do anything properly today. Goodness knows how things will be after the inevitable night of the long knives. We already had one in June 2019 and another even more severe one seems inevtable.