Remote work for EU client. Is it digital services?

[Old Greg]

Who is your accountant?

Your last few threads of crackpot ideas to commit fraud make money craftily, you were still trying to do your accounts yourself. Just wondering what changed and who is doing the books for you now.

Let's just say a certain respected operation in the Dutch Antilles has extended what it looks to call its family of contractors.

[WTFH]

I spoke with my accountant and they are not sure.

Who is your accountant?

Your last few threads of crackpot ideas to commit fraud make money craftily, you were still trying to do your accounts yourself. Just wondering what changed and who is doing the books for you now.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Thanks.
Yes, they are a company in the EU.
Yes, they are VAT ge/ed in their country.

I will be providing the service remotely from UK. Does that change anything of the above?

No.

[pscont]

Thanks.
Yes, they are a company in the EU.
Yes, they are VAT ge/ed in their country.

I will be providing the service remotely from UK. Does that change anything of the above?

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

No, it is consultancy services.

Furthermore, the "VAT MOSS" rules for the supply of digitally supplied services (e.g. software, downloads etc.) only applies to B2C supplies, not B2B supplies.

As long as you are satisfied that your customer is business, then as Maslin says, the place of supply will be where the customer belongs (although they do not need to be VAT registered - if they do not have a VAT number you should keep alternative supporting evidence of their business status) and as such it will be outside the scope of UK VAT.

If they are EU-based, you should include a notice on your invoice stating that no VAT has been charged and that the reverse charge applies - the customer will account for VAT at their end. If they are outside the EU you don't need to mention VAT at all.

[Maslins]

If this is bespoke consultancy to one client, then it won't fall under those rules.

The digital services stuff is more for "produce once, sell to many" situations. Eg you write an app/ebook/video which you then sell the same thing directly to many different customers.

It sounds like you're just providing a normal service. Assuming your client is in the EU and is a business registered for VAT wherever they are, the place of supply is deemed to be where the client is. From your perspective you should get their local VAT number, and don't charge them UK VAT. From their perspective they'll deal with it via the reverse charge mechanism, which basically means pretend you charged them their local VAT rate, and pretend to reclaim it.

[pscont]

On a second glance there is this

Using the internet, or some electronic means of communication, just to communicate or facilitate trading does not always mean that a business is supplying e-services. Using the internet for the following does not count:

services of lawyers and financial consultants who advise clients through email


educational or professional courses, where the content is delivered by a teacher over the internet or an electronic network (in other words, using a remote link)

And while it is not 100% match is the closest thing to what I will be doing. Or if it is easier I can structure it as course.

The point is really to not get bogged down in admin (VAT MOSS) for something very short term, not that I care I will make them pay 20% more.

[pscont]

I spoke with my accountant and they are not sure.
Situation. I will be providing consultancy in form of advice to a client in EU.
They do something IT and need best practices, so I will talk them through via phone and skype. Question is do I charge VAT on their invoices?
That is besides the threshold of £8818, I am not sure if it will be passed, but it might be.

The definition says:

Defining digital services
Telecommunications services

This means transmission of signals of any nature by wire, optical, electromagnetic or other system and includes:

    fixed and mobile telephone services for the transmission and switching of voice, data and video, including telephone services with an imaging component, otherwise known as videophone services
    telephone services given through the internet, including Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP)
    voice mail, call waiting, call forwarding, caller identification, 3-way calling and other call management services
    paging services
    access to the internet

It does not cover services just given over the telephone, such as call centre help desk services.
Electronically supplied services

These rules only apply to e-services that you supply electronically and includes things like:

    supplies of images or text, such as photos, screensavers, e-books and other digitised documents, for example, PDF files
    supplies of music, films and games, including games of chance and gambling games, and programmes on demand
    online magazines
    website supply or web hosting services
    distance maintenance of programmes and equipment
    supplies of software and software updates
    advertising space on a website

Sales not affected by these rules

Using the internet, or some electronic means of communication, just to communicate or facilitate trading does not always mean that a business is supplying e-services. Using the internet for the following does not count:

It doesnt fall under any of those, but still not sure.
What do you think?