Reply to: IR35: Backdated complications if new offer is inside IR35

[northernladuk]

I understand this, but the reason I asked the question because in my accounts next year for the company this will be clearly visible that until now I have been outside and from this year I have become inside.

To me it just raises a suspicion that I may have been inside before. Because the skill set, experience, working style for an IT contractor doesn't change in most of the cases. In my next project the only reason I am being hired is because my previous role and working was very relevant.

Just thought if someone has specific experience from public sector working.

Going into permanent is a different thing as either you close your company or make it dormant.

Thanks

I even said it 4 times to help you. Nothing, zero, nada, zip.

You really need to understand what you do and how you work better.

[cojak]

I understand this, but the reason I asked the question because in my accounts next year for the company this will be clearly visible that until now I have been outside and from this year I have become inside.

To me it just raises a suspicion that I may have been inside before. Because the skill set, experience, working style for an IT contractor doesn't change in most of the cases. In my next project the only reason I am being hired is because my previous role and working was very relevant.

Just thought if someone has specific experience from public sector working.

Going into permanent is a different thing as either you close your company or make it dormant.

Thanks

The answer is still the same. The 2 contracts are separate and the working practices will be different too.

[swathingmold]

It's very simple... IR35 is on a contract by contract basis. A contract with company 2 has absolutely zero bearing on whatever you did with company 1. Nothing, zero, nada, zip.

I mean, think about it. How can it?

The guides you need to learn about IR35 are on the right.

I understand this, but the reason I asked the question because in my accounts next year for the company this will be clearly visible that until now I have been outside and from this year I have become inside.

To me it just raises a suspicion that I may have been inside before. Because the skill set, experience, working style for an IT contractor doesn't change in most of the cases. In my next project the only reason I am being hired is because my previous role and working was very relevant.

Just thought if someone has specific experience from public sector working.

Going into permanent is a different thing as either you close your company or make it dormant.

Thanks

[ladymuck]

Different poster.

I think the confusion is due to it being a reply to your post.

Ah. My bad. Hard to keep up with crossposting.

[MrButton]

But you said accept a contract somewhere else with a different client?

How has that now morphed into the same client but a different role?

Different poster.

I think the confusion is due to it being a reply to your post.

[ladymuck]

I'm going from outside with Client A, to permanent role with Client A.....different role, department, no project work anymore, but same skillset essentially. Decision was not related to IR35. I'm concerned that a flag will be raised with the timing of it all though.
I guess HMRC are fully expecting tens of thousands of contractors to switch to permanent roles though?

But you said accept a contract somewhere else with a different client?

How has that now morphed into the same client but a different role?

[northernladuk]

I'm going from outside with Client A, to permanent role with Client A.....different role, department, no project work anymore, but same skillset essentially. Decision was not related to IR35. I'm concerned that a flag will be raised with the timing of it all though.
I guess HMRC are fully expecting tens of thousands of contractors to switch to permanent roles though?

They are but in many cases they will be expecting them to be doing exactly same thing. Proving without a doubt (in most cases) that the contractor was nothing but a perm resource with different engagement method. HMRC will be rubbing their hands with glee.

Your situation is different as you are taking up a different position with the client not relating to your old one so there is no comparison between the two so you are fine'ish.

The only think you might worry about is if the role you are leaving is deemed inside even if it's not you doing it which would tell HMRC there is a chance it's been in all along. It's highly unlikely they can find out if you leave before a determination. At worst you'll get a letter saying you were outside but not perm, whats going on. You prove it's a different job and they skulk away.

[northernladuk]

Hi All,
Please excuse me if this is not the right place to post this -

I am working via an Agency to a big retailer since last 5 years, contract was extended sometimes 6 months and sometimes 1 year.
Obviously wording in the contract is such so that it is outside with substitution clause and so on (I understand the difference between wordings and work in practice). The contract is finishing now on 31st Jan.

If I accept a contract somewhere else with a different client inside IR35 - Would it will be red flag to HMRC that since he is doing his new job as inside, he may have been inside in his previous role? Is it best to avoid? So I should either go for outside IR35 or permanent job OR It is not related.

Please help me and if anyone has seen anything in public sector with the same scenario?

Thanks

It's very simple... IR35 is on a contract by contract basis. A contract with company 2 has absolutely zero bearing on whatever you did with company 1. Nothing, zero, nada, zip.

I mean, think about it. How can it?

The guides you need to learn about IR35 are on the right.

[yMyjgT]

Going from outside with client A to inside (or permanent) with client B is not a red flag.*


* assuming that Client B isn't Client A by another name or you're doing work for Client A but via Client B...

I'm going from outside with Client A, to permanent role with Client A.....different role, department, no project work anymore, but same skillset essentially. Decision was not related to IR35. I'm concerned that a flag will be raised with the timing of it all though.
I guess HMRC are fully expecting tens of thousands of contractors to switch to permanent roles though?

[ladymuck]

Hi All,
Please excuse me if this is not the right place to post this -

I am working via an Agency to a big retailer since last 5 years, contract was extended sometimes 6 months and sometimes 1 year.
Obviously wording in the contract is such so that it is outside with substitution clause and so on (I understand the difference between wordings and work in practice). The contract is finishing now on 31st Jan.

If I accept a contract somewhere else with a different client inside IR35 - Would it will be red flag to HMRC that since he is doing his new job as inside, he may have been inside in his previous role? Is it best to avoid? So I should either go for outside IR35 or permanent job OR It is not related.

Please help me and if anyone has seen anything in public sector with the same scenario?

Thanks

Status is on a per contract basis and each should be assessed on its own merits.

Going from outside with client A to inside (or permanent) with client B is not a red flag.*


* assuming that Client B isn't Client A by another name or you're doing work for Client A but via Client B...

[swathingmold]

Considered Outside now but what happens if accepts Inside IR35 with different client

Hi All,
Please excuse me if this is not the right place to post this -

I am working via an Agency to a big retailer since last 5 years, contract was extended sometimes 6 months and sometimes 1 year.
Obviously wording in the contract is such so that it is outside with substitution clause and so on (I understand the difference between wordings and work in practice). The contract is finishing now on 31st Jan.

If I accept a contract somewhere else with a different client inside IR35 - Would it will be red flag to HMRC that since he is doing his new job as inside, he may have been inside in his previous role? Is it best to avoid? So I should either go for outside IR35 or permanent job OR It is not related.

Please help me and if anyone has seen anything in public sector with the same scenario?

Thanks

[cojak]

Sorry it was not joke. I quite didn't understand if he meant "umbrella" company or meant to be "safely into permie"..

No, he meant umbrella company.

[sojan]

Is that a joke? Brolly is an English term for umbrella. What he is referring to is use an umbrella company rather than limited.

Sorry it was not joke. I quite didn't understand if he meant "umbrella" company or meant to be "safely into permie"..

[northernladuk]

I had this conversation with another contractor.

If a public sector client has a lot of contractors and moves them from outside to inside, they obviously got the determination wrong and should be liable. However, it is highly unlikely a government department is going to take another department to court are they? More of a case of, let's move everyone inside and forgot it never happened...

It's outrageous.

I dont think that's true at all. Their working practices and cultures have matured to allow an outside determination.

When it hit they just wanted bum on seats perma tractors. Now they are happy to accommodate what is needed for an outside determination so more outside gigs popping up. They simply didn't understand contractors back then. They've woken up now.

The same will happen in the private sector I think but should happen much quicker.

That said I've had a job alert on and there are still a good number of inside gigs. There is a clear mix. They definitely haven't gone back to the old days.

[boxingbantz]

Completely agree with those guys.

Which makes it more surprising that some public sector clients are reassessing contracts inside. After having declared them outside for the last 2.5 years.

I’d have thought this would be opening these clients up to massive liabilities but maybe they know something we don’t.

I had this conversation with another contractor.

If a public sector client has a lot of contractors and moves them from outside to inside, they obviously got the determination wrong and should be liable. However, it is highly unlikely a government department is going to take another department to court are they? More of a case of, let's move everyone inside and forgot it never happened...

It's outrageous.