Reply to: Another contractor IR35 win

[northernladuk]

A great philosopher once wrote, Naughty, naughty, very naughty

[TestMangler]

I seem to remember some notable philosopher arguing going to church, praying to God etc might seem like a waste of time until when push comes to shove, you find there is an afterlife and you are being herded into the down lift to Hell and eternal damnation and then you suddenly see the merits of religion, sadly too late.

However, despite that, I doubt many contractors believe in God.

I think most believe in IR35 though.

[Cirrus]

Shows How Old I Am

Pascal

Well bugger me backwards: that was the taught high level language on my MSc course.

[fidot]

Pascal - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager

So perhaps more logic/probability than philosophy.

[Cirrus]

If a bit of time, effort and discussion keeps me from being the one that might get caught and be liable for 100's of K then I'll keep pontificating for the time being.

I seem to remember some notable philosopher arguing going to church, praying to God etc might seem like a waste of time until when push comes to shove, you find there is an afterlife and you are being herded into the down lift to Hell and eternal damnation and then you suddenly see the merits of religion, sadly too late.

However, despite that, I doubt many contractors believe in God.

[Hobosapien]

The HMRC court losses should mean they do more due diligence before taking future cases to court. It's as if they're run by muppets with a budget to spend and the result is almost irrelevant.

[northernladuk]

I've said this all along but everyone here ignores it and carries on pontificating

At the beginning this was your unqualified opinion and some of us just played the game to say as safe as possible. That said even I have to admit it's starting to look like we've spent a lot of time making sure of being out when we might not have needed to. So yes, evidence is mounting to back up your comment now but nothing wrong with pontificating until it's an absolute dead cert IMO.
If a bit of time, effort and discussion keeps me from being the one that might get caught and be liable for 100's of K then I'll keep pontificating for the time being.
Sitting there and saying I told you so when the evidence appears years later isn't much of a flag to wave IMO.

EDIT : And I also see it a bit like security at an office. They've never had to chase anyone down or stop someone walking out with a monitor so what's the point? The fact it's there makes people act properly. If we didn't pontificate over IR35 people wouldn't be prepared and wouldn't be winning in court.
So actually I think your comment is completely wrong. If we all took your approach there would be a lot more HMRC wins.

[Cirrus]

at the end of the day, it all looks like a crapshoot.

I've said this all along but everyone here ignores it and carries on pontificating

[Old Greg]

https://www.contractoruk.com/news/00...r35_again.html

Fair play Mr Wells.

“However this is Mr Wells’ second IR35 case, which does raise important questions over HMRC’s targeting of contractors.

“I can't recall another situation where a contractor has been investigated twice. From this, it could be argued that HMRC has an agenda, and is wrongly going after certain individuals.”

Even with random selection, you would expect the occasional contractor to be investigated twice. Otherwise, once investigated a single time, you would have a free pass.

[saptastic]

https://www.contractoruk.com/news/00...r35_again.html

Fair play Mr Wells.

“However this is Mr Wells’ second IR35 case, which does raise important questions over HMRC’s targeting of contractors.

“I can't recall another situation where a contractor has been investigated twice. From this, it could be argued that HMRC has an agenda, and is wrongly going after certain individuals.”

[Hobosapien]

If HMRC can't understand their own rules regarding IR35 how can they expect anyone else to.

Instead of chasing the individual I can see how they'll put the onus on the client to deem whether contract is inside or not, then HMRC can go after the bigger companies that get it wrong. Though many clients will blanket deem inside IR35 to avoid the risk of investigation and penalty, until that is seen as fraud in its own right and they get investigated anyway.

For now get a contract blanket deemed inside IR35, a suitable rate uplift to offset it, and wait for the misselling payback when it turns out you were not inside IR35 after all.

[Old Greg]

Although it would be necessary to attend progress meetings, it was essentially left to Mr Wells’ discretion as to whether to attend or not.

I see. Well played indeed.

[mudskipper]

Andy Vessey write up here

https://www.qdoscontractor.com/ir35/...re-ltd-vs-hmrc

The guy had already survived one IR35 inquiry.

[simes]

A splendid story, and well done to Mr Wells and Qdos.

It really is all a bit hopeless... We're running around, trying to get ourselves buttoned up with this and that level of understanding, and at the end of the day, it all looks like a crapshoot.

[MrButton]

There’s an FOI response from DWP which states that (at August 2017) 322 out of 338 contractors are deemed outside.