Reply to: Help - Client won't pay Umbrella company and umbrella company won't pay me

[Snarf]

To a limited sense you have to look at it from the umbrella company's viewpoint - if an agency goes bankrupt owing the contractor / umbrella that month's payment the umbrella company doesn't have (and will never have) the means to pay the contractor. Hence the umbrella needs a clearcut "pay on received payment" clause as otherwise the umbrella has a big problem.

That's not to say that an umbrella company shouldn't do anything they can to ensure payment is received - but they do need to cover the neither of us are going to see the money scenario. Sadly many umbrella's won't do that as it will be more important to keep their marketing department (often the agency responsible for payment) happier than a solitary contractor.

But the point of an umbrella is to act as an employer for the contractor - an employer would be obliged to pay their staff regardless of the status of their contracts with their clients. As an example I used to work for a utility provider who had a contract with BT, I worked on the BT projects.. they lost the contract with BT and there was a massive dispute about outstanding money... but I still got paid.

I cant see what the point of an umbrella with this clause in the contract is.

[madame SasGuru]

But are there any that don’t have this, or does every contractor who uses an umbrella just has to hope that the client is ethical and will deign to pay them?

To a limited sense you have to look at it from the umbrella company's viewpoint - if an agency goes bankrupt owing the contractor / umbrella that month's payment the umbrella company doesn't have (and will never have) the means to pay the contractor. Hence the umbrella needs a clearcut "pay on received payment" clause as otherwise the umbrella has a big problem.

That's not to say that an umbrella company shouldn't do anything they can to ensure payment is received - but they do need to cover the neither of us are going to see the money scenario. Sadly many umbrella's won't do that as it will be more important to keep their marketing department (often the agency responsible for payment) happier than a solitary contractor.

[Lance]

But are there any that don’t have this, or does every contractor who uses an umbrella just has to hope that the client is ethical and will deign to pay them?

I’ve never used an umbrella. And to be honest cannot see that I ever will. If I’m going to be employed by someone it’s going to the company not a middleman.

[cojak]

It could be, just a thought this, that Safe Collections only see problem ones?

But are there any that don’t have this, or does every contractor who uses an umbrella just has to hope that the client is ethical and will deign to pay them?

[ladymuck]

It could be, just a thought this, that Safe Collections only see problem ones?

Well, yes, of course - they get involved when it goes pear shaped.

[Lance]

Then I would only work for client via a Ltd company.

That alone means there’s no point working via an umbrella.

It could be, just a thought this, that Safe Collections only see problem ones?

[cojak]

The last three umbrella contracts we have seen all had strong "pay when paid" clauses in that precluded the employee taking any action against the brolly if the end client did not pay

Then I would only work for client via a Ltd company.

That alone means there’s no point working via an umbrella.

[Safe Collections]

So threaten the umbrella with legal action.

And the client is taking you for a mug - remember that’s it’s them not paying you.

I would fire them for breach of contract.

The last three umbrella contracts we have seen all had strong "pay when paid" clauses in that precluded the employee taking any action against the brolly if the end client did not pay

[TonyF]

You are employed by the umbrella company. You have worked for the umbrella company. You are owed money by the umbrella company.

It isn't going to be the full lot you're owed until they get their money, but you're their employee so they need to pay you minimum wage or whatever is in your contract with them.

You are a permanent employee of the umbrella company so make the most of that and get some money from them. That should at least put some food on the table for a little bit. In the meantime, get your hands on a credit card and spend on that while you sort this out.

[ECommerceConsultant]

So threaten the umbrella with legal action.

And the client is taking you for a mug - remember that’s it’s them not paying you.

I would fire them for breach of contract.

Yes, I have considered that - the breach of contract by the end client.
It looks like it's getting resolved today. They have involved an intermediary to provide payment to me.

[cojak]

So threaten the umbrella with legal action.

And the client is taking you for a mug - remember that’s it’s them not paying you.

I would fire them for breach of contract.

[ECommerceConsultant]

Don’t Panic.

Take a deep breath and read this Late Payment Legislation Letters Forms & Templates - Pay on Time

You can do most of this yourself , just be methodical and take it one step at a time.

This is a good step-by-step guide to go with the above letters https://www.1and1.co.uk/digitalguide...minder-letter/

Also look up ‘dunning’.

Thanks. The only trouble is that it's the umbrella that has the contract with the end client...so any reminder letters would have to come from them, and they do not give a toss, and they will not lift a finger to chase payment.

[ECommerceConsultant]

you clearly care too much about the client.
How can the workshops be 'required' when they haven't paid you? They don't seem that important.

If they have a history of bad/late payment (which they do) I'd be very cautious about spending a load on travel and accommodation. In fact I'd insist they pay for all the travel and accommodation themselves and provide an up-front per-diem allowance before I went anywhere.

I know, I have made it clear, that if I don't get paid, I can't go anywhere. But at the same time, I am required to run the workshops in Europe, and need to pay for my travel and accommodation this week. At the same time, I feel the threat, that if I can't do my job, I will get the sack...but I can't do my job if they don't pay me. It's a very bad situation.

[Lance]

Umbrella name?

what use is that? The Umbrella are playing by the rules.

Client name surely? Not that it's wise to mention either at all.

[psychocandy]

Umbrella name?