Reply to: Outside of IR35 so I should opt out ? or I shouldn't ?

[northernladuk]

well you think they are not aware of that ?

Not at all. There are a couple of things you have to realise about agents. They are likely to have less of a clue about the regs than you do. They will bend anything to suit themselves whether it's right or not. They do not work in your best interests, their revenue is the only thing they care about. They will outright lie if it suits them to do so.

It's up to you to get everything right which includes reviewing and signing contracts and opt out/in forms in good time BEFORE a contract starts.

they will prob illegally treat me like opted out since I am a new contractor. current situation is totally in my benefit and I was not thinking to change the agreement i sent regardless the validity of opting out. I 'll have the benefits of opting in.. cool finally solved. Adios thread

Not really. If you ever have to fall back on this (which is highly unlikely) there is going to be a right argument. Falling back on a situation because you didn't sign something so you are OK is a poor way to run your affairs. Sort it out properly before you start so everyone is on the same page. You are rely on semantics and an argument if it goes wrong.

Arguing over your opt in/out status is a waste of time anyway as I am not aware anyone's status has ever made a difference when the crap has hit the fan.

Sort your affairs out properly and in good time rather than waiting for default situations because you started before signing.

[aeroeng]

Jesus...

Read this, particulary the last question... Which echos what TF said to you a couple of posts ago..

www.contractoruk.com/agencies/5158.html

well you think they are not aware of that ? they will prob illegally treat me like opted out since I am a new contractor. current situation is totally in my benefit and I was not thinking to change the agreement i sent regardless the validity of opting out. I 'll have the benefits of opting in.. cool finally solved. Adios thread

[northernladuk]

Jesus...

Read this, particulary the last question... Which echos what TF said to you a couple of posts ago..

www.contractoruk.com/agencies/5158.html

[aeroeng]

So opt out.





But its a complete waste of time now as its invalid.

if it was invalid, they wouldn't put the manager on phone to ask me to opt out. they would just processed it. But hold on, I thought the idea was not to opt out... the whole forum says not to opt out. why do you tell me to opt out ?

[northernladuk]

So opt out.





But its a complete waste of time now as its invalid.

[aeroeng]

Anyway so I will give some updates, which sounds interesting.

I filled the compliance forum and ticket opt in. Right after my agency tried to contact me, then they sent an email saying their manager want to speak with me " So I told him to call me after i finish work. He told me "they were surprised that I didn't opt out the conduct of employment agency, which many limited company directors opt out". I asked him why would I ? would it cause any problem? he told me well it is a grey area, not black, neither white, so difficult to say if it can give any trouble to me. Then I said well I did some research and consulted contractors, and found out that most of the don't opt out. He said, oh really? I didn't know that, I can't understand why they don't opt out. I asked him if he has seen any case putting contractors in danger who opted in? he said there hasn't been. But he kept telling me I might me giving wrong message to hmrc, and can get a wrong Tax number because I will be treated as a employee...etc etc. he said he will get a legal advice and call me tomorrow.
They simply want me to opt out.

[northernladuk]

I have a feeling the OP still won't want to listen.

[TheFaQQer]

What bargaining power? I can opt out now without any worry because I already met with the client, and one of the criteria of opting out to do further experience and skills check before starting.

No you can't. You cannot opt out once you've been introduced to the client.

Now that you have started, there is next to no chance of any clauses being renegotiated to suit you - that's why you have no bargaining power any more.

[aeroeng]

It certainly is good advice. Once you have started a contract, the contractor has given away any bargaining power he/she may have had. What makes you think the agency will make changes now?

I read the contract before hand btw. I ddnt go to job clueless. I have been told the contract they sent me is the real contract they make with contractors. they will just add my details on it

[aeroeng]

It certainly is good advice. Once you have started a contract, the contractor has given away any bargaining power he/she may have had. What makes you think the agency will make changes now?

What bargaining power? I can opt out now without any worry because I already met with the client, and one of the criteria of opting out to do further experience and skills check before starting.

[aeroeng]

worse than that. They (agency) can refuse to pay for the work done before the contract is signed without breaching the contract once it is signed.

And no insurance.

Probably ruin IR35 as well. How can you claim to be delivering services against a contract when you've started work without agreeing what you'll do. Smells like MOO and SDC.

My documents are issued according to my start date, client agreed with the agency on my start date, also my line manager confirm my times and approve it. Also How can it ruin IR35 ?

[Lance]

It certainly is good advice. Once you have started a contract, the contractor has given away any bargaining power he/she may have had. What makes you think the agency will make changes now?

worse than that. They (agency) can refuse to pay for the work done before the contract is signed without breaching the contract once it is signed.

And no insurance.

Probably ruin IR35 as well. How can you claim to be delivering services against a contract when you've started work without agreeing what you'll do. Smells like MOO and SDC.

[fidot]

It certainly is good advice. Once you have started a contract, the contractor has given away any bargaining power he/she may have had. What makes you think the agency will make changes now?

[northernladuk]

thanks for your "invaluable contribution"

Believe me. It's good advice.

[aeroeng]

I don't care. Don't start a gig without a signed contract.

thanks for your "invaluable contribution"