Basic Expenses question

[SueEllen]

It's a grey area and to be honest for the small tax saving not worth the hassle or possible lube treatment from HMRC IMO.

It isn't a grey area.

It is not necessarily a small tax saving

HMRC won't give you the lube treatment if you do it properly.

[TheFaQQer]

It's a grey area

No it isn't - see my post above.

If you can claim travel expenses, you can claim subsistence as well; if you can't then you can't. I'm not sure how much clearer it can be

[SlipTheJab]

It's a grey area and to be honest for the small tax saving not worth the hassle or possible lube treatment from HMRC IMO.

[northernladuk]

You say work at that company/site. What about geographical location? If you are in the Square mile in London and have worked at other clients there you could still have fallen foul of the 24 month rule.

[mudskipper]

Can someone settle an argument for me please? Myself and a colleague are disagreeing on something

Scenario:
- we are both IT contractors using our own Ltd companies
- we are both on short term (3-6 month contracts) that regularly get renewed
- we both work 2 days in our home (home office)
- we both commute about an hour into the city office 3 days a week
- we both have worked at this company/site for under a year

The question:
- can lunch expenses be claimed?

thankyou for your time reading, apologies as I bet the regulars see this quite a lot

Lunch @ home. No
Lunch @ city. Yes

And thankyou is a made up word

[SueEllen]

I’ve seen accountants argue it’s not claimable on here before (it is for the reasons TF has already pointed out) so to not surprising some people get this bad advice.

Some people may be getting confused by the duality of purpose thing which does generally apply to employee expenses but not in this specific case. Or they are getting confused by the rules for the self employed which are more restrictive IIRC.

We all know this but it would have been worth the OP posting the explanation they were given.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Yep had the same and we've seen it on here as well. I was wondering if he's just got it completely wrong and doesn't fundamentally understand the whole temporary workplace thing let alone arguments about duality of purpose etc.

I’ve seen accountants argue it’s not claimable on here before (it is for the reasons TF has already pointed out) so to not surprising some people get this bad advice.

Some people may be getting confused by the duality of purpose thing which does generally apply to employee expenses but not in this specific case. Or they are getting confused by the rules for the self employed which are more restrictive IIRC.

[northernladuk]

Some people would argue that because you have to eat lunch wherever you are, it would fail duality of purpose.

That's not what I would say, but I know that some people have argued that before when explaining why they wouldn't claim for lunch.

Yep had the same and we've seen it on here as well. I was wondering if he's just got it completely wrong and doesn't fundamentally understand the whole temporary workplace thing let alone arguments about duality of purpose etc.

[TheFaQQer]

What is his reasoning behind not being able to claim?

Some people would argue that because you have to eat lunch wherever you are, it would fail duality of purpose.

That's not what I would say, but I know that some people have argued that before when explaining why they wouldn't claim for lunch.

[northernladuk]

What is his reasoning behind not being able to claim?

[Ittechy]

My understanding is that if you are working at a temporary workplace and are not caught by the IR35 rules then you can claim for the actual meal costs whilst working at the temporary location.

[TheFaQQer]

The rules for subsistence associated with business travel are here:
EIM31815 - Travel expenses: general: accommodation and subsistence: include associated subsistence

Following the decision in Nolder v Walters (15TC380) ‘travel expenses’ for this purpose include the actual costs of travel together with any subsistence expenditure and other associated costs that are incurred in making the journey. This includes:

any necessary subsistence costs incurred in the course of the journey
the cost of meals necessarily purchased whilst an employee is at a temporary workplace
the cost of the accommodation and any necessary meals where an overnight stay is needed. This will be the case even where the employee stays away for some time

So - meals (which includes lunch) that are purchased either when on a business journey or while working in a temporary workplace are fully claimable. If you are working in a temporary location and travel is claimable, then so is any subsistence.

[Syrinx]

Can someone settle an argument for me please? Myself and a colleague are disagreeing on something

Scenario:
- we are both IT contractors using our own Ltd companies
- we are both on short term (3-6 month contracts) that regularly get renewed
- we both work 2 days in our home (home office)
- we both commute about an hour into the city office 3 days a week
- we both have worked at this company/site for under a year

The question:
- can lunch expenses be claimed?

thankyou for your time reading, apologies as I bet the regulars see this quite a lot