renting office space abroad, chargeable VAT?

[doconline]

Thanks both for the comments, the country is Romania.

Having an office gives some sort of control compared to work from home; it is more expensive tho. I can't find any reference about self employment.

I think VAT is my last issues to think of.

Depending what the product is, but if you are using Git or some other version control system you will have some control over what they are doing anyway or can at least keep track on what they are doing Good luck with it all though.

[seek25]

Thanks both for the comments, the country is Romania.

Having an office gives some sort of control compared to work from home; it is more expensive tho. I can't find any reference about self employment.

I think VAT is my last issues to think of.

[SueEllen]

Thanks for your reply, it could be legal basic stuff, I don't do legal work for a living, I look at these from a simplified point of view; yet I have started a topic to educate myself before making a decision.

I do appreciate the answer could be complex and very little are offering quality advice for free, so once again thanks for your time sharing what you know on the topic.



Thanks for your reply, I believe the issue starts at the time I actually rent an office and have contractors coming to work in there; it is basicaly employment. Under these circumstances the legal path seems to be local registering of a new company and pursue local employment following local country laws.

But, to keep it simple and make it quicker, I should be able to hire them as contractors using the UK company and it's not my duty to know if they have paid their local taxes or not; I just paid what we have agreed on, basicaly like hiring freelancers on a website. Unless I am again looking from a too simplified point of view?


Thanks.

In some countries it is not as easy as in the UK to hire freelancers, and if they don't have other clients they can be deemed as being your employees even if you have no local office.

Unfortunately without giving us the country people can't actually give you specific advice as each European countries' company, employment and tax laws differ.

[doconline]

Thanks for your reply, it could be legal basic stuff, I don't do legal work for a living, I look at these from a simplified point of view; yet I have started a topic to educate myself before making a decision.

I do appreciate the answer could be complex and very little are offering quality advice for free, so once again thanks for your time sharing what you know on the topic.



Thanks for your reply, I believe the issue starts at the time I actually rent an office and have contractors coming to work in there; it is basicaly employment. Under these circumstances the legal path seems to be local registering of a new company and pursue local employment following local country laws.

But, to keep it simple and make it quicker, I should be able to hire them as contractors using the UK company and it's not my duty to know if they have paid their local taxes or not; I just paid what we have agreed on, basicaly like hiring freelancers on a website. Unless I am again looking from a too simplified point of view?


Thanks.

Yes, definitely quicker and easier for you to have them work as freelancers for you and look after their own taxes etc. might work out more expensive for you though, but less of a headache. Just one for you to weigh up really. But if you are going down that route, it also means you can cast the net as wide as you want to get the freelancers.

[seek25]

This stuff is basic.

If you can't be bothered to research on operating in a foreign country and hiring employees in a foreign country then don't expect others to spoon feed you especially when you don't name the country.

Freedom of movement doesn't mean freedom to ignore the laws of another country, and not pay taxes there whether their your own, your company's or those you have to collect on behalf of your employees.

Thanks for your reply, it could be legal basic stuff, I don't do legal work for a living, I look at these from a simplified point of view; yet I have started a topic to educate myself before making a decision.

I do appreciate the answer could be complex and very little are offering quality advice for free, so once again thanks for your time sharing what you know on the topic.

Many things. You will need to provide local contracts and pay local taxes etc for these employees, as they won't be based in the UK, so the local country will not recognise a UK contract. You will need to engage local legal and financial representation to get this set up. It's not quite as easy as just hiring an office and saying you can work there to the employees. I'm not trying to sound condescending but I think you have a lot of other things to look at before you start worrying about avoiding paying VAT on the office rent.

Maybe look at them contracting to you directly so you don't have to set yourself up locally, and specifiy that you make a payment to a them for hotdesk situation if there is a local solution like Regus here for example.

Thanks for your reply, I believe the issue starts at the time I actually rent an office and have contractors coming to work in there; it is basicaly employment. Under these circumstances the legal path seems to be local registering of a new company and pursue local employment following local country laws.

But, to keep it simple and make it quicker, I should be able to hire them as contractors using the UK company and it's not my duty to know if they have paid their local taxes or not; I just paid what we have agreed on, basicaly like hiring freelancers on a website. Unless I am again looking from a too simplified point of view?


Thanks.

[doconline]

Why settle for anything else than a villa at the beach

I have the comany registered in the UK, is where I live, but I am thinking to hire an office in the EU and establish a software development small 1-2 people team in there. Trying to figure out if I can avoid paying VAT on rent because I an quite sure once paid I wont get it back.

I have read that link, the developemnt is for a product that is sold in the UK, it seems to qualify?

Registering the company is the EU, is it mandatory? The idea is to hire them using a basic UK contract and provide the office as a work place where they can gather and work rather than work from their home. Anything to consider about this?

Thanks.

Many things. You will need to provide local contracts and pay local taxes etc for these employees, as they won't be based in the UK, so the local country will not recognise a UK contract. You will need to engage local legal and financial representation to get this set up. It's not quite as easy as just hiring an office and saying you can work there to the employees. I'm not trying to sound condescending but I think you have a lot of other things to look at before you start worrying about avoiding paying VAT on the office rent.

Maybe look at them contracting to you directly so you don't have to set yourself up locally, and specifiy that you make a payment to a them for hotdesk situation if there is a local solution like Regus here for example.

[SueEllen]

Why is that, can you elaborate please.

thanks

This stuff is basic.

If you can't be bothered to research on operating in a foreign country and hiring employees in a foreign country then don't expect others to spoon feed you especially when you don't name the country.

Freedom of movement doesn't mean freedom to ignore the laws of another country, and not pay taxes there whether their your own, your company's or those you have to collect on behalf of your employees.

[seek25]

You are asking for trouble doing that for a lot of reasons.

Why is that, can you elaborate please.

thanks

[SueEllen]

Why settle for anything else than a villa at the beach

I have the comany registered in the UK, is where I live, but I am thinking to hire an office in the EU and establish a software development small 1-2 people team in there. Trying to figure out if I can avoid paying VAT on rent because I an quite sure once paid I wont get it back.

I have read that link, the developemnt is for a product that is sold in the UK, it seems to qualify?

Registering the company is the EU, is it mandatory? The idea is to hire them using a basic UK contract and provide the office as a work place where they can gather and work rather than work from their home. Anything to consider about this?

Thanks.

You are asking for trouble doing that for a lot of reasons.

[seek25]

Why settle for anything else than a villa at the beach

I have the comany registered in the UK, is where I live, but I am thinking to hire an office in the EU and establish a software development small 1-2 people team in there. Trying to figure out if I can avoid paying VAT on rent because I an quite sure once paid I wont get it back.

I have read that link, the developemnt is for a product that is sold in the UK, it seems to qualify?

Registering the company is the EU, is it mandatory? The idea is to hire them using a basic UK contract and provide the office as a work place where they can gather and work rather than work from their home. Anything to consider about this?

Thanks.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

I'll leave the others to be cynical about this one...

Under the general rule, a supply of services from an EU VAT registered business to a UK VAT registered business would normally be deemed as being supplied where the customer belongs and therefore would be a reverse charge supply, not a zero-rated one (supplier does not charge VAT, UK customer accounts for VAT under the reverse charge).

However, I can think of two reasons why this would not fall under the general rule.

Firstly, I believe this would fall under land related services, in which case the place of supply would be where the land or property is located.

Secondly, renting an office in another EU country would probably mean you have a fixed establishment in that country and it would likely be deemed the establishment most connected to the supply (for obvious reasons).

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-services#sec4

If the supplier is in the same country as the place you're renting then they would charge local VAT and you would not be able to recover this easily without registering for VAT in that country. If you're setting up an office there you may want to check local laws regarding tax and VAT registration anyway.

[northernladuk]

Sounds like a scam to me. Why on earth do you need an office anywhere let alone in Europe? You're not trying to finance a holiday home are you?

It's a good office space, one desk, one chair and it's also got a 2 bed apartment in a complex with pool on the Costa Del Sol attached to it

[Waldorf]

Sounds like a scam to me. Why on earth do you need an office anywhere let alone in Europe? You're not trying to finance a holiday home are you?

[seek25]

Hello,

I have an UK VAT registered business and looking to rent some office space within the EU. I have found the space I like and the cost includes VAT.

Since both my company and the landlord company in the EU are VAT registered, should I ask for a zero vat monthly invoice?

Thanks.

Cio