Precedence Of Work Schedule Over T's & C's

[northernladuk]

Hi Guys,
Would like to express my gratitude to all you for your cooperation and help.
Thanks a lot.

My team and I thank you for your comments. I'll speak to them all individually to pass on your best wishes.

[CountryGirl]

Hi Guys,
Would like to express my gratitude to all you for your cooperation and help.
Thanks a lot.

[SueEllen]

You did, I hadn't seen your further reply. (anyone else find the app doesn't always update?)

Apart from an out of courtesy point, I'm struggling to understand we expect notice periods to be anything more than a few days/ a week. If you're not performing, you should know. If the project is on the rocks you should know. In my experience, projects can be pulled unexpectedly but that's the exception.

You need to hit the refresh button frequently with the app.

Some clients do oddly have 4 week notice periods and I've met contractors who have have been paid 4 weeks when their projects were canned.

Personally I view 4 weeks with suspicion.

[TheBA]

Correct. My 3rd paragraph says that. We work on a T&M basis so only get paid for work we do. If the client has no work for us then that's that. Luckily enough most clients won't pull this as things will get very mercenary very quickly if they do.

You did, I hadn't seen your further reply. (anyone else find the app doesn't always update?)

Apart from an out of courtesy point, I'm struggling to understand we expect notice periods to be anything more than a few days/ a week. If you're not performing, you should know. If the project is on the rocks you should know. In my experience, projects can be pulled unexpectedly but that's the exception.

[SueEllen]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for all your nice and helpful advice.
As there are different opinions here, I thought a bit of more information wouldn't hurt:
The client has decided to terminate my contract early, and was willing to give me a 2 weeks notice only.
The agency of course has sided with them, waving with the immediate termination clause.

You are presuming you had an immediate or a 30 day termination clause.

Some agents will agree terms with the client but will not change the standard contract they give you unless you convince them to. This is why having a contract review to highlight conflicting clauses is important as you can turn around to the agent and ask them to put in the same terms for things like termination, dispute resolution, etc as in the upper contract so you clarify what the actual clause is.

Has any of you come across such case before, and do you any idea of what the court has to say on that?

No one knows as it depends on the judge on the day as laws in the UK are rarely black and white. Since 2 weeks is nearly the middle of nothing and a month I would take it simply as it is a waste of your time and energy pursuing it in court. Chasing debts even when they are legit and clearly defined in the contract is a hassle and can be stressful, let alone chasing something that is unclear.

While you may have thought that a contract review is a waste of money you have now learnt why having one is important. In addition regardless of whether you are providing services as a contractor, you are entering a permanent employment, buying insurance etc read the contract before signing it and don't sign it if you are unhappy with any clauses.

[northernladuk]

As LM says above, aren't notice periods a bit irrelevant for us? Even if the notice is 30days, can't they can tell you not to come in as of tomorrow. No?

Correct. My 3rd paragraph says that. We work on a T&M basis so only get paid for work we do. If the client has no work for us then that's that. Luckily enough most clients won't pull this as things will get very mercenary very quickly if they do.

[TheBA]

As LM says above, aren't notice periods a bit irrelevant for us? Even if the notice is 30days, can't they can tell you not to come in as of tomorrow. No?

[northernladuk]

It will never get near court. It's too expensive for you and it's highly unlikely you'll win from the sound of things.

If they can get rid of you on the spot but they've offered two weeks I'd think yourself lucky TBH.

They could have given you 30 days notice and only given you two weeks work and they have then fully complied with the contract.

If you are an IPSE+ member you might get a grand or two off their business interruption.

[CountryGirl]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for all your nice and helpful advice.
As there are different opinions here, I thought a bit of more information wouldn't hurt:
The client has decided to terminate my contract early, and was willing to give me a 2 weeks notice only.
The agency of course has sided with them, waving with the immediate termination clause.
Has any of you come across such case before, and do you any idea of what the court has to say on that?

[SueEllen]

The second problem you've got is you've not had your contract checked properly and there are poor clauses in there. You shouldn't have an instant termination in for no reason whatsoever. If you do it trumps absolutely everything else

It may not do but as we don't have the entire contract we can't tell. Though it is likely if these clauses conflict, there are lots of conflicting clauses in the contract and schedule which means the contract doesn't make sense and even those in the legal professional would have a problem interpreting it.

One thing with the termination clauses you need to be aware of is that they can't terminate you instantly on grounds related to any form of discrimination. However it is up to you to go to court and prove it. Since most people don't due to the extra stress and the expense, then clients and agencies get away with it.

[northernladuk]

I'm new to this forum, and relatively new to contracting - have only be doing it for less than 3 years,

Sorry but over 2 years isn't new. New is a few months into your first gig or maybe even 6 months in and your 2nd gig.

My question regards the default precedence of the 2 contract parts - i.e the Work Schedule vs. T's & C's,
in case there is no priority clause.
To be more specific - if the WS has a 30 days notice period (agency to contractor) and in the T's & C's there
is a clause of immediate termination in case the client terminates for whatever reason,
which one is the overriding clause?
Thanks in advance to whoever can advise.

The problem here you've got messed up agreements. The Work Schedule should be what it says on the tin. It shouldn't have anything about notice periods or termination. It should just about what is to be done. The T&C's will be the terms applied as you do the work carried out in the schedule.

The second problem you've got is you've not had your contract checked properly and there are poor clauses in there. You shouldn't have an instant termination in for no reason whatsoever. If you do it trumps absolutely everything else. I'd say the priority is the one that happens first. Instant termination or 30 days, it's going to be the instant one. You say you want 30 days, they point out they can do it instantly. Can't do anything about it.

Get the awful instant termination out for no reason out of the contract and you've got something approaching reasonable. They can terminate in certain cases such as misconduct instantly but otherwise they have to give you notice to end the contract.

Having your contract checked by a professional would have avoided this mess....

Now that's the theory.. The reality? Notice periods are generally worthless. You get paid for the time you put in per day. There is likely to be another clause saying you get paid for days on a signed submitted timesheet. If the client tells you there is no work to do the timesheet will be 0 and your pay will be 0. Effective instant termination even though the contract is still actually running. We do not get paid for time we do not do.

[LondonManc]

I'd also suggest that the 30 day clause means nothing if you have a clause anywhere that allows for no mutuality of obligation. In such a case they can invoke the 30 day clause and advise you not to come in because they have no work for you.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

IANAL but in the absence of a clause clarifying which takes precedence in the event of a conflict (which really should have been there: my contracts stipulate that the schedule takes precedence) I would say the most recent thing you signed would take precedence.

[CountryGirl]

Hi Guys,
I'm new to this forum, and relatively new to contracting - have only be doing it for less than 3 years,
so your advice here will be greatly appreciated.
My question regards the default precedence of the 2 contract parts - i.e the Work Schedule vs. T's & C's,
in case there is no priority clause.
To be more specific - if the WS has a 30 days notice period (agency to contractor) and in the T's & C's there
is a clause of immediate termination in case the client terminates for whatever reason,
which one is the overriding clause?
Thanks in advance to whoever can advise.