Reply to: Invoices in certain template

[Lance]

On the presumption that the VAT man wants an easy way to spot missing (or bogus) invoices - it breaks that.

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I think the VAT man just wants to make sure you're not 'disappearing' invoices. Which is not the sort of fraud a PSC would do in the first place.

[Contreras]

In what way are YYYY and MM not series?

On the presumption that the VAT man wants an easy way to spot missing (or bogus) invoices - it breaks that.

I was offering an opinion that's all. If anyone wants to interpret the rule as permitting 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377, 610, 987, 1597, 2584, 4181, 6765, 10946, 17711, 28657, 46368, 75025, 121393, 196418, 317811, ... that's fine by me too.

Come to think of it, where does it say they have to be integers?

Sequences

[fidot]

Wong, IMHO.

The xxx and yy are ok.

The YYY and MM are not.

In what way are YYYY and MM not series?

[MrMarkyMark]

I've noticed a couple of threads talking about sequential numbering. This is news to me so I've emailed my accountant.
My invoice numbering is like this

xxxYYYYMMyy

xxx = identifies the customer
YYYY = guess what
MM = guess what
yy = sequential number to make sure I can generate more than 1 invoice per month per customer

The VAT link you put states "a sequential number based on one or more series which uniquely identifies the document". And one dictionary for sequential states "forming or following in a logical order or sequence"

So am I doing it right or wrong?

Sounds fine to me, as one or more series can be used?

As long as there are no dupes, you will be fine?

[Lance]

Wong, IMHO.

The xxx and yy are ok.

The YYY and MM are not.

HMRC have their own dictionary. Who knows what they really mean or hope to gain from this, but then what is there to gain from bucking the norm?

My accountant say it's fine.
It is sequential. It is unique.
Quote "there is no requirement that invoice number must be in numeric sequential order"

And I use that method for all my documents as they sort in date order in a filesystem when sorted alphabetically. It pleases me when that happens and I've used it since the 90s.

[Contreras]

I've noticed a couple of threads talking about sequential numbering. This is news to me so I've emailed my accountant.
My invoice numbering is like this

xxxYYYYMMyy

xxx = identifies the customer
YYYY = guess what
MM = guess what
yy = sequential number to make sure I can generate more than 1 invoice per month per customer

The VAT link you put states "a sequential number based on one or more series which uniquely identifies the document". And one dictionary for sequential states "forming or following in a logical order or sequence"

So am I doing it right or wrong?

Wong, IMHO.

The xxx and yy are ok.

The YYY and MM are not.

HMRC have their own dictionary. Who knows what they really mean or hope to gain from this, but then what is there to gain from bucking the norm?

[missinggreenfields]

I've noticed a couple of threads talking about sequential numbering. This is news to me so I've emailed my accountant.
My invoice numbering is like this

xxxYYYYMMyy

xxx = identifies the customer
YYYY = guess what
MM = guess what
yy = sequential number to make sure I can generate more than 1 invoice per month per customer

The VAT link you put states "a sequential number based on one or more series which uniquely identifies the document". And one dictionary for sequential states "forming or following in a logical order or sequence"

So am I doing it right or wrong?

Right.

My invoices have a three letter code for the client and then a three digit sequential number after it. Sometimes I will include a three letter code for the agency if I am likely to work for the client again. As long as they are sequential, then that's all that matters - it also means that if I work with an agency that uses self billing, their invoice number isn't going to clash with anything that I use / have used.

[Lance]

(remember - invoices must be numbered sequentially - see 5.1: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ng-vat-records).

I've noticed a couple of threads talking about sequential numbering. This is news to me so I've emailed my accountant.
My invoice numbering is like this

xxxYYYYMMyy

xxx = identifies the customer
YYYY = guess what
MM = guess what
yy = sequential number to make sure I can generate more than 1 invoice per month per customer

The VAT link you put states "a sequential number based on one or more series which uniquely identifies the document". And one dictionary for sequential states "forming or following in a logical order or sequence"

So am I doing it right or wrong?

[GillsMan]

I agree with the general advice here. I wouldn't be overly happy if this was foisted upon me either, but I certainly wouldn't look to lose a client over it. If you declined to use their format, the invoice would still be payable, since there's nothing in the contract about invoice format, but then again, I wouldn't expect to get anymore business if I was rocking the boat over it.

The main thing is to ensure that their format includes the requisite information you need to include, and doesn't impact on your invoice numbering format (remember - invoices must be numbered sequentially - see 5.1: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ng-vat-records).

[missinggreenfields]

One of my clients insist on the invoice conforming to their format, because they put it through a scanner and look for key fields to automatically link the invoice to the right project etc.

I modified my standard invoice template to include the additional fields. For clients that don't need them, they are still on the invoice but are blank.

[SueEllen]

I was more curious from a legal standing what would happen if I simply kept issuing invoices as I have been, could they refuse to pay it because it is not in the format they would like? There isn't anything in the contract regarding the format the invoice needs to be in.

They would have to pay up.

Just make sure the invoice has the fields the government states is required (Google it if you don't know) so they can't argue they don't know who they are paying. Personally I would include any extra fields the client demanded as they can't use they don't know who you are as an argument to withhold payment.

I've had an agency and a direct client who were fussy about invoices. With both I pointed out the contract was silent on this matter and they can't just randomly impose terms on the formatting and invoice delivery. The agency just moaned while the direct client I threatened with legal action before they paid up.

There is a legal case, which you can find by Googling, were a company had to pay the supplier what they thought they owed even though the invoices had incorrect amounts on it. This went to a higher court so sets a precedent. There however aren't any cases over particular formatting or how the invoice can be delivered.

[northernladuk]

Just out of interest, is your contract with group support office as well?

[LocumVet]

Thank you all for the advice.

My actual client with whom the locum work is booked is the individual clinics, which are owned and managed separately - it is the groups support office (essentially their accountants) that are demanding the change. I can't see any way the support office could tell the practice partners who they can or can't book - it simply doesn't go through them.

I was more curious from a legal standing what would happen if I simply kept issuing invoices as I have been, could they refuse to pay it because it is not in the format they would like? There isn't anything in the contract regarding the format the invoice needs to be in.

[BigRed]

You say they are one of your major clients, they can't force you to use their invoice format, they can stop giving you work. Suck it up, try to increase fees come renewal because of increased admin costs. You are not a vet, you are a company offering a full service.

[Old Greg]

Good evening,

I know that this this site tends to mostly be IT contractors, but I am hoping you can help me. I work as a locum vet through my own limited company. I use InniAccounts for all my accounting and produce my invoices through their software.

I have just been informed by the support office of one of my major clients that from next month I will need to submit invoices using their template - which I've had a look at and it's awful and seems to be made to take the most time possible to fill out.

Where do I stand here - Can they decline to pay me unless I send them invoices using their template? Or given that I am already producing a legal invoice should I simply stick to my guns? Finally, if they can decline to pay me unless I use their template can I charge an admin fee for doing so?

Many thanks!

If it's a major client, I would suck it up. Put your price up by an extra 0.5% next year. Enforcing your rights probably isn't worth losing the contract.