Reply to: Agency misleading re Contract Length

[Bee]

This is becoming boring to see so much humiliation, in the professional section it's unacceptable. Who likes to humiliate others are the losers. Common on the Internet.

[northernladuk]

Oh.. Looky here..

Rate increases = nightmare.

IMHO, most clients are generally not happy to have to pay for a contractor in the first place so when they find out they want more it doesnt go down well.

Saying that, theres always a chance the pimp is taking a huge margin.

Current gig just got a raise.Agent gave me all the, client cant afford to pay more blah blah blah, the wont be happy if they've got to re-do budgets etc, and there's no slack in the margin at all the agency is down to the bare bones blah blah blah.

But I stuck to my guns this time and agency came back with an increase which I was pleased with. Until I found out accidentally a week later just how much the of a margin the agency had been taking - over 30%! (its still about 17% now!). Was not pleased.

Obviously, agent had given up a big of their huge margin to keep me quiet confident in the knowledge they were still coining it well.

Some have mentioned speaking to client directly. Nah I dont think so. Most clients dont want to get involved in arguments like this.

You'll probably argue the point it's a ridiculous margin which is kind of your fault anyway but it doesn't even have to be this extreme. The guy is on 17% now, that's say 70 quid a day or 400? Shouldn't be too difficult getting another tenner or more out of that if you want to push it. It's pure profit for the agent.

Anyway. That's me done on this one. I'm already in trouble so just gonna slink out quietly and hope my I don't get another Private Message today......

[northernladuk]

I bow to your contractor ninja like skills and knowledge NLUK

Not really either. Just being aware what is going on around you and not making ridiculous sweeping statements.

I must admit I thought you'd had a rate rise at renewal sometime in the past? I certainly have on a number of occasions. The agent has made his money from the contract length in hand. Everything else is a bonus so if he's taking 15-20% it shouldn't be too difficult to get him to chop that for renewals. Agents just don't ditch contractors to replace them just to keep their margins up. It's really poor practice and won't be profitable for them in the long run. They would much rather keep a person on at a reduced rate and concentrate on placing another body somewhere else. It's just basic business sense.

[northernladuk]

Might I interest sir in one of these?

He's already on ignore. Sadly it's pretty poor so I can see stuff before I log in and the app tells me he's ignored and then shows it if he's quoted someone. It's not very good and have resisted most of the crap I've seen. This particularly post stood head and shoulders above most of the other bollocks so couldn't resist.

[missinggreenfields]

All spoken like a typical permie minded disguised contractor that doesn't know what they do.

Might I interest sir in one of these?

[psychocandy]

With out the stupid Ever and ever comment they have a rate and they will generally stick to it unless there are some big market swings over a period. They won't however stick to it for ever and ever. Funny how a stupid comment can turn what might have been true statement in to a pile of crap.



Talking of steaming piles of crap... there is another one.

All spoken like a typical permie minded disguised contractor that doesn't know what they do.

I bow to your contractor ninja like skills and knowledge NLUK

[northernladuk]

Nope - pushed him back up to the advertised rate

Nice one.

But again, remember if you have a no work/no pay or a woolly clause covering instant termination which most do the notice period is irrelevant.

[bathingape]

If he did offer £50 less and you took it you know full well you've got some wiggle room for negotiation now to get it back. Lots of threads on how to negotiate, don't ask, be prepared to walk etc. Agents do this for a job so they will be tough to deal with.

Nope - pushed him back up to the advertised rate

[bathingape]

So what did the original contract you signed say?

Standard agency bulltulip trick mind. Tell you its longer then when it comes down to signing the contract its less. Not a big deal IMHO though anyway.

And you'd know when you signed the contract....

I signed a 12 month contract. Like I said to someone else, and has been posted in this thread, it's only as long as my notice period.

[northernladuk]

Good luck with that one.....

Clients IMHO want the same rate for EVER and EVER and will say sorry budget has been done and there no more.

With out the stupid Ever and ever comment they have a rate and they will generally stick to it unless there are some big market swings over a period. They won't however stick to it for ever and ever. Funny how a stupid comment can turn what might have been true statement in to a pile of crap.

Agents will NEVER reduce their cut unless they really are taking the piss and are forced to (they'll just think leave then we'll get someone else in at the client).

Talking of steaming piles of crap... there is another one.

All spoken like a typical permie minded disguised contractor that doesn't know what they do.

[psychocandy]

Not 100%. It could be the top of the reasons why agents offer less (in the list below) when you speak to them. There could be more reasons but these are the most plausible. The second is probably the one in the vast majority of cases.

He put top rate on to get the best CV's but knew the rate was £50 less
He's trying to pocket the £50. Pretty standard in any negotiation really so have to expect it. He probably still trying to do this even if he offers the rate on the advert.

I ask the agent from the outset and then get them to confirm it in an email. So far I've not had one lie about it due to them putting it in writing. I am however aware of agents that the client thinks are on a fixed margin but for some reason the contracts are not getting what the sums would suggest. I expect at some point one agent will go as far as to lie in the email as well.

If he did offer £50 less and you took it you know full well you've got some wiggle room for negotiation now to get it back. Lots of threads on how to negotiate, don't ask, be prepared to walk etc. Agents do this for a job so they will be tough to deal with.

Yep seen this. Client manager was not impressed when they found out how much the agency were taking - for about a day. But big organisation, someone else had dealt with negotiations. It got forgotten about. Agent managed to talk his way out of trouble.

But I guess agents are good at knowing what lies will never get found out and which they can talk they're way out of.

Seen the £50/day thing too. New contractor who ended up going perm. Only came to light when he mentioned it to client/new employer when he'd gone perm. Again nothing happened to agent apart from manager being a bit annoyed for about a day (but going forward he didn't care - it was in the past and now this guy was onboard as a perm).

[psychocandy]

Before I accepted the gig, the agent tried to pull a fly one with the rate. Offered me £50 less than advertised. Is this a give away that he's not on a fixed rate?

Yep. Standard trick. Either that or client has told us they've had budget cuts and have to pay £50 less.

Its a lie - the £50 goes in agents pocket.

[psychocandy]

cheers and like I said, I realise nothing can be done and that it's part and parcel of the game, as I've been contracting for a few years now.

On a side note - how do you guys go about negotiating a rate increase - without pissing off the client? Do you push the agent to take if out of their percentage?

Good luck with that one.....

Clients IMHO want the same rate for EVER and EVER and will say sorry budget has been done and there no more. Agents will NEVER reduce their cut unless they really are taking the piss and are forced to (they'll just think leave then we'll get someone else in at the client).

[psychocandy]

More of a rant than anything else....I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. I've been contracting at client for a couple month or so. Originally I was offered a 12 mth contract, however on all internal client systems (timesheet etc) I notice my end date is within 6 mths. I queried this with my manager and he advised that he wasn't sure why I was told it was 12 mths.

I queried with the agency and they advised tht it was originally 12 mths however when the work order came through, it was for 6 months only. I am a bit p*ssed off but realise that nothing can be done however it would have been nice of the agent to at least advise me. I'm sure there are honest agents out there however the minority like this mob certaily leave a bad taste.

So what did the original contract you signed say?

Standard agency bulltulip trick mind. Tell you its longer then when it comes down to signing the contract its less. Not a big deal IMHO though anyway.

And you'd know when you signed the contract....

[Fred Bloggs]

Before I accepted the gig, the agent tried to pull a fly one with the rate. Offered me £50 less than advertised. Is this a give away that he's not on a fixed rate?

No, he wanted £50 more of your money to fund his Friday afternoon beers.