Reply to: Agency saying "made a mistake on the rate", dropping it, wont pay invoice.

[LondonManc]

You quoted the wrong comment?

No, I was saying you're suggesting things in that post (don't make me quote PC's stuff, he'll think I'm agreeing with him!) like PC has done further on

[NickNick]

Just to add to this from personal experience as I've had a very similar thing happen to me a few years ago. Agent contacts me to let me know that the rate they are paying me is the same as the rate they are charging the client due to an admin cock up on their end. So would I be so kind as to refund the difference back dated to the start of the contract?
I politely declined, they sacked the admin person who caused the issue and then at renewal time I assume they sorted their mess out. I remained on the same rate at least.

[jmo21]

So it sounds like as we thought, the agent gave you their rate (25% ouch!)

So not only are you getting bent over, they made a mistake in the original way they were trying to bend you over.

How exactly did the client tell you "tough"? To your face, or did the agency tell you "We've spoken to the client and they will not budge".

It is clearly not the clients fault, but I hope you spoke to them rather than leave it all to the agency. Do they definitely know it was the agents fault? Do you definitely know the agent isn't spinning them a yarn about it somehow being your fault.

If they DO know it was the agents fault, an amicable "I'm sorry, but I simply cannot reduce my rate by that much. The agent has made a massive mistake, and I would not have accepted the role at the level. I appreciate this will cause you resourcing issues, but again, I must reiterate that the agency are at fault, and are refusing to pay my agreed rate, and threatening to deduct it from my last invoice when they have no legal right to do so".

I get the caveats about your current financial situation, but I simply could not stay in that situation.

[northernladuk]

Come on, be fair. PC was making assumptions and so are you.

You quoted the wrong comment?

[LondonManc]

What a load of crap. Where is the client dumping on him? Client pays a rate to agent for a contractor, agent messes rate and client not willing to make up the difference is dumping on him?

I can't imagine for one minute the client is pleased with this situation either.

Come on, be fair. PC was making assumptions and so are you.

OP has said that both client and agent want him to reduce (but he's not said whether it's just the agent that have communicated that).

Personally, with the potential of a 25% cut (rather than the 10% cuts that many of us have stood in the past), I'd be straight to hiring manager to hear it from them rather than the agent. If the agent and/or client are cheeky enough to try and stiff you for 25%, then you've got to be cheeky back and ask the hiring manager what the hell's going on. By what's going on, I'd be saying to the hiring manager that 25% is a massive cut - lay your cards on the table here and ask the hiring manager what they're paying the agent. Normally, it's none of your business but when your contract is at risk, it becomes your business. If it turns out that the agent's trying it on, then work with the client manager to agree a sensible rate for you and an appropriate mark-up for the agent. Again, be very clear that you have a legally-binding contract with the agent for the duration of the engagement so far and expect that to be honoured but that you are willing to negotiate.

Name and shame would help us all, once you've determined the wrongdoer.


Would you have taken the gig at that rate from the start? Has it cost you a 475/day gig?

[northernladuk]

If you stay and more importantly stop fighting it means you agree to the new contract terms. So you can't just up and leave if you find a new contract x weeks later as you won't get paid at all.

And as I pointed out I'm old and mean. One reason I'm a contractor not a permie is if someone p*sses me off or tries tulip tactics on me I can walk out.

Indeed but telling them you are waiting for feedback from your solicitor will give you a couple of weeks. I didnt say stop fighting. I said play the situation.

[SueEllen]

To all the big 'dudes' walking off site to make a point... To what? Sit on the bench? That's tough of you. Why don't you stay in the gig, make some money while you look for another gig. When you get that gig leave this on Friday and start the new one on Monday. Happy days.....

If you stay and more importantly stop fighting it means you agree to the new contract terms. So you can't just up and leave if you find a new contract x weeks later as you won't get paid at all.

And as I pointed out I'm old and mean. One reason I'm a contractor not a permie is if someone p*sses me off or tries tulip tactics on me I can walk out.

[gables]

Yup, there are times to walk, this is one. Caveated as above regards your financial position. At the very least I'd be looking for a new gig and leaving with as little notice as possible without breaching.

WTF?? You are worried about breaching this one?? It would be a very brave (stupid) agent to even begin to hold anyone to contractual clauses when they won't pay what was agreed.

To all the big 'dudes' walking off site to make a point... To what? Sit on the bench? That's tough of you. Why don't you stay in the gig, make some money while you look for another gig. When you get that gig leave this on Friday and start the new one on Monday. Happy days.....

It might take a bit of smoke and mirrors and a bit of playing but surely you win both ways. Just walking off site is like cutting your nose off to spite your own face surely?

Hang on a bit buddy I said what you said, see bold, and having re-read the situation I wouldn't worry about the breaching bit which you were correct about

[TheFaQQer]

Well, appears I've been sh*t on. Have been told by the client and agent to like it or lump it, and it's a big drop (about 25% - and the higher rate wasn't great). Probably going to stick it out for a bit, see how things go - I've got some family commitments that mean having to work away is out of the question at the moment.

Pretty unhappy about the whole situation - counter productive too, I was happy to work a reasonable amount of extra hours, but not now. Somewhat demotivated too, I'm sure I'll get back to my usual self in a few days though.

Thanks all for your replies, they're much appreciated. Only thing to do now is have the argument about this being debt that I'm writing off, rather than as they claim, the payment never having been due, and not offering them a credit note so they can feel better about it and claim to not be in breach.

If it wasn't for agents and clients, my job would be great.

If the rate is in the contract or schedule (and I haven't reread the whole thread), then you will need a new contract to correct their mistake.

When they do that, you need to negotiate the notice period down as far as possible, so that you can get out as soon as you can.

Remember that you can chase for bad debt up to six years after the debt becomes due - so I wouldn't write it off yet. You are right, they are wrong - so when you get out of there I'd be following the late payment legislation and ultimately be prepared to go to the courts to get the money that is owed to you.

That allows you to get some money in now, lull them into a sense of security, then when you've got more warchest clobber the f***ers with the bill and win.

[northernladuk]

Is that Blue Oyster Cult's far less successful follow-up?

No, It's Chris De Burgh's... Everyone is paying the ferryman so he's trying something new.

[northernladuk]

25% !!!! Stuff that.....

Like you said though, if you need the money even at the lower rate. I'd be well unpleased though.

Like you, client would get about 0.5 secs of free time off me now they happy to be involved in this malarky.

Last edited by administrator; Today at 10:35. Reason: Don't quote the winker

So how can I respond to PC posts if I'm not allowed to quote him?

[LondonManc]

Both through the agent or separately?

Tell them that you accept that they made a mistake but the contract you signed must be honoured and paid in full for days already worked at the rate agreed in the original contract. If they now want to terminate that contract and issue you with a new one, then get them to draft a new one (that you will need to have checked by QDOS or similar). Suggest that you work up to the end of this week on the current contract while having the new one checked. In the meantime, get your cv out there and get something else, leaving them in the lurch.

Who should we be avoiding by the way?

Last edited by administrator; Today at 10:34. Reason: Don't quote the winker

Is that Blue Oyster Cult's far less successful follow-up?

[northernladuk]

OP seems to be implying that client has been made aware of whats gone on and is saying to him to get on with it at the lower rate.

But then again who knows what the agent has told the client. Can't see them admitting they screwed up. Never know - agent may have lied completely and told client that OP knew the rate all along and is now wanting more.

You are just making crap up now aren't you?

[northernladuk]

So agent makes the cock up (and lets face it getting the rate so wrong is one huge cock up) but gets off scott free? That is the galling part, I agree with LondonManc, old contract should be paid up as per terms and new one drawn up (which the OP is at liberty to accept or reject), the loss the agency makes on the initial contract is not the OPs fault is it?

I don't think the agent are getting away scott free at all. My comment was related to whoever I quoted saying they wouldn't show their face at the clients after them dumping on him. That's wholly incorrect.

I totally agree about leaning on the agent. I wouldn't draw a new contract up... I'd play the game on the old contract so keeping myself being paid but the old contract still in tatters. I'd be quite happy to find a new gig and just drop it like a rock. The agent loses out massively as the client loses the contractor because of their cockup and I would also go legal for the money agreed. There must be something about honouring payment and not being able to claw it back if there has been a mistake... Agent loses out again.

I don't think they are getting away scott free but I wouldn't be chopping my nose off to make sure he gets stung. I'll just play it to my advantage regardless of what happens to the agent.

[psychocandy]

So agent makes the cock up (and lets face it getting the rate so wrong is one huge cock up) but gets off scott free? That is the galling part, I agree with LondonManc, old contract should be paid up as per terms and new one drawn up (which the OP is at liberty to accept or reject), the loss the agency makes on the initial contract is not the OPs fault is it?

Yes good idea. Agency suck it up for the first part because you screwed. New contract - up to OP if he wishes to continue or not.