Reply to: Being Forced To Go Permie

[JB3000]

Hello,

I've done a quick browse and can't see any threads on this or similar topics but apologies if this is a common question and I've missed something!

I started my first contract this time last year, a 3-month one that has been repeatedly extended and is still ongoing.

I recently informed them that I'd be increasing my rates and was called into a meeting with the Head of IT.

There I was told that they were happy enough with the rate increase as I was worth it and they were keen to keep me on.

The Head of IT said though that he'd been informed by the Head of Finance that "IR35 won't allow us to keep on contractors for longer than 1 year" and that I'd have to go permie if I wanted to carry on there.

I responded by saying that I'd never heard of anything like that and that it sounded like nonsense wherein I was told that it "might not be IR35 per se" but instead one of the various certifications the company holds.

I've tried searching around and can't see anything relevant to this. Has anybody ever heard of anything like this before? Normally I'd suspect it was BS to get me to go permie but my relationship with the Head of IT has been very good to date. I'm going to push for further clarification but I'd rather be suitably armed before doing so.

Thanks in advance,

Tommy

I haven't read the thread but would be surprised if no one has mentioned the blinking obvious.

Sounds like your contract is inside of IR35 and going permanent in this role will only make things worse should you be investigated. Sounds like your part and parcel to be honest and are just essentially doing a job meant for a permie.

Depending on how risk adverse you are, you might want to finish delivering the project and get out of their like a bat out of hell.

Have you had your contract and working practices reviewed?

If not, get on the line to Qdos and take some tax liability cover out for the love of JB3000.

[wantacontract]

£70k permie offer - where do I sign??

[d000hg]

Well on a day rate, you can get pushed into working long hours. You're not working 'overtime' but the effect is the same.

And there's no reason a contractor wouldn't get emails/calls (or wouldn't answer them) just because they're a contractor.

[MrMarkyMark]

You get that as a contractor if you're not firm. It's about how you handle yourself.

I just realised there is so much wrong with that statement, or, maybe its just me

[LondonManc]

You get that as a contractor if you're not really a contractor.

FTFY

[MrMarkyMark]

You get that as a contractor if you're not firm. It's about how you handle yourself.

I've never been rated as crap. But then, I'm not

I would personally expect a small company to be far more fun to work in... small as in well under 100 people. I know people in places like that and have worked in them, and it's so much less about forms and process and more about people wanting you to do well so the company benefits. You being better at your job makes you valuable.

Ah yes, the size of a firm does have a bearing (until they are bought out). I should have stated I was talking about large corporates.
I have to admit, my work experience has only been with blue chip corporates, where I believe my original comments still stand.

[d000hg]

Then there's all the unpaid overtime, phone calls on holiday and so on that you can look forward to as a perm.

You get that as a contractor if you're not firm. It's about how you handle yourself.

Never personally witnessed it, unfortunately.
Just a "tool" to rate the person as cr*p, improvement needed, no pay rise or bonus.

I've never been rated as crap. But then, I'm not

I would personally expect a small company to be far more fun to work in... small as in well under 100 people. I know people in places like that and have worked in them, and it's so much less about forms and process and more about people wanting you to do well so the company benefits. You being better at your job makes you valuable.

[billybiro]

But that's like one day a year, who cares? And in a decent company these can be useful - an opportunity to get training and push into new areas,

And the number of companies that actually offer any decent training these days is vanishingly small. Most, especially in IT/Development, expect you to do all this on your own dime and time. (i.e. may as well be a contractor).

It's all part and parcel of the move by most organisations to focus solely on the bottom line (whilst ignoring things like quality of service etc.) and "trimming the fat" of anything and everything that isn't absolutely essential. Very frequently, training falls into this.

[LondonManc]

Not so much anymore, I know some are clamping down.

I'm thinking more about hotels not being paid for out of own pocket and only getting a fraction back.

[MrMarkyMark]

Upside is a complete lack of care about expenses, etc.

Not so much anymore, I know some are clamping down.

[LondonManc]

and don't forget the inflation busting 2% annual salary rise !

Though, I've got a mate who recently went permie with a smallish consultancy. Decent package and bonus attached to amount of billable days. Appraisals, annual reviews are tickbox exercise so not much of a drain. He seems happy with it so far

Consultancy ticks a lot more boxes for me than perm does; still project based, plenty of variety, constant training when not on client site, etc. The downside is that you're then consultancy co's biatch and could suddenly be sent somewhere at short notice. Upside is a complete lack of care about expenses, etc.

[jbond007]

and don't forget the inflation busting 2% annual salary rise !

Though, I've got a mate who recently went permie with a smallish consultancy. Decent package and bonus attached to amount of billable days. Appraisals, annual reviews are tickbox exercise so not much of a drain. He seems happy with it so far

[MrMarkyMark]

But that's like one day a year, who cares? And in a decent company these can be useful - an opportunity to get training and push into new areas,

Never personally witnessed it, unfortunately.
Just a "tool" to rate the person as cr*p, improvement needed, no pay rise or bonus.

Then there's all the unpaid overtime, phone calls on holiday and so on that you can look forward to as a perm.

Yep, in most cases, all present and correct.

[LondonManc]

But that's like one day a year, who cares? And in a decent company these can be useful - an opportunity to get training and push into new areas,

Your two statements do not go hand in hand. In a decent company, they take more time, have preliminary reviews, secondary reviews, quarterly goal progress reviews, quarterly action point checks, etc. to make sure that your SMART objectives are still SMART, that training has been arranged in a timely manner and so on.

Then there's all the unpaid overtime, phone calls on holiday and so on that you can look forward to as a perm.

[d000hg]

Or on the negative side, appraisals, target setting...

But that's like one day a year, who cares? And in a decent company these can be useful - an opportunity to get training and push into new areas,