Reply to: Putting up Day rate..?

[sociopath]

Again you are talking about the client who has nothing to do with your contract with the agent. Deal with the agent... Who is used to this... The client will never know.

I've successfully negotiated with the client. On one occasion it was the agent that requested that I negotiated with the Client.

I agree the best place to start is with the agency as that is who you have a contract with and not the client. But if the agency doesn't budge its not the end of the line.

Just do it in a professional manner. No need to throw toys out of prams. Your trying to sell a win win situation. If the project budget can accommodate and your worth the extra money then the opportunity is there. If the project budget can't accommodate then its down to cutting the agents slice of the pie.

It's best place to do any negotiations at extensions or when your negotiating any changes to scope.

[Chutley]

Most people in the thread seem to be making a fundamental mistake and taking about the client. It's the agents margin where you will get most success. He's made the money he expected in the first gig. The rest is easy money so go for that chunk. Not the clients rate card. That's said we've only got half a story from the OP.

Wow, lots of seemingly conflicting advice. Thanks for the replies to all, at least I have a balanced view!

I am not going to approach the client or agent during the extension of current contract, which runs through to May 16. However, I'll be 18 months down line then and seem to be doing well, so I can start my rate negotiations a little higher with next contract.

[MrMarkyMark]

This guy was straight out of perm so new to contracting. He assumed it was all true.
A few months down the line client took him on as perm and it all came out.

So not really a contractor at all then?

[northernladuk]

This guy was straight out of perm so new to contracting. He assumed it was all true.
A few months down the line client took him on as perm and it all came out.

I thought this was crossing the line a bit. Agent was misrepesenting the client here I thought and making up a story.

Nothing happened to agent though. Big company- all got a bit lost in the mix. But agent probably knew that he could get out of it.

So a really good example to back up your argument.

[psychocandy]

Well then the contractor guy is a fool.
He was weak in the first place, then allowed the vulture to swoop in, subsequently he was even weaker when he didn't threaten to walk away.

You don't get anything if you don't negotiate.
You also get less grief, in the following assignment, if you establish a certain level of understanding at the outset.

Been doing it for years

This guy was straight out of perm so new to contracting. He assumed it was all true.
A few months down the line client took him on as perm and it all came out.

I thought this was crossing the line a bit. Agent was misrepesenting the client here I thought and making up a story.

Nothing happened to agent though. Big company- all got a bit lost in the mix. But agent probably knew that he could get out of it.

[northernladuk]

You think too much, better to trust your contractor instincts.

Why use instincts when some basic economics will do.

[jmo21]

As ever, people state absolutes on CUK, and get roasted for it.

[BigRed]

I told my client I was trying to reduce the agencies cut and to refuse a rate rise if they asked. Sure enough they phoned the client asking to increase the rate and got turned down flat, I only got a small increase but it's money for nothing.

[SlipTheJab]

Yeah agents love giving away their income, they are true selfless creatures.

Yeah right better for the agent to keep 100% of nothing rather than 50% of something...

[Unix]

Think about that a little more.

You think too much, better to trust your contractor instincts.

[northernladuk]

Yeah agents love giving away their income, they are true selfless creatures.

Think about that a little more.

[MrMarkyMark]

Same guy did the old day-before-sorry-client-has-had-knock-£50-a-day-off-because-of-budget-cuts to one guy (not me). Stuck £50 in his pocket.

Well then the contractor guy is a fool.
He was weak in the first place, then allowed the vulture to swoop in, subsequently he was even weaker when he didn't threaten to walk away.

You don't get anything if you don't negotiate.
You also get less grief, in the following assignment, if you establish a certain level of understanding at the outset.

Been doing it for years

[Unix]

WTF is going on today. I can't believe some of the tulip I'm reading today. Do you really think an agent will jepordise his income by involving the client where it's not required. It just doesn't make sense for a start. Practically speaking I've had rate rises on two of my last three gigs and the client didn't get a whiff. There are plenty of people on this forum that have said the same.
Agents might be cut throat mercenaries but their job is to keep the client happy. He's not going to be dropping his contractor in it and upset the client for a few 10s of pounds if he's already been taking an above average cut.

Don't get me wrong this isn't a given. The agent may be on a fixed margin and he might also play hardball so the contractor will need to make it stick.

The fact that PC agrees is enough to prove you are missing the mark alone.

Yeah agents love giving away their income, they are true selfless creatures.

[northernladuk]

Disagree. I've known an agent who says one thing to client and one thing to contractor, plays them both off against each other, and hopes they dont talk to each other. But then hes been dealing with client for years, and is confident in his ability to bulltulip his way out of any flak that arises.

Been doing it for years. I guess the fact that he gets away with such large cuts and lies to both parties means it worth a little risk.

Same guy did the old day-before-sorry-client-has-had-knock-£50-a-day-off-because-of-budget-cuts to one guy (not me). Stuck £50 in his pocket. This all came out when contractor told client and client said they'd said no such thing. Agent still managed to bulltulip his way out of it!

Again... One agent, one person, one situation does not mean it's standard. I know one Welsh bloke who is a complete moron. Doesn't mean they are all. Look beyond you made up single examples when trying to understand a situation .

[gables]

Well when I contracted first time round rate rises were the norm every extension and with a new client a bigger jump but then the contracting pool was lower and the roles seemed more abundant

Anyway...

If the market rate has moved upwards for what you do, then ask for a rate rise. If the scope of what you're doing has changed in a positive way then ask for a rate rise. These are probably acceptable reasons for a client, negotiations via agent obviously, can go the other way which we'd need to accept.

If you're doing exactly the same but your costs have gone up, or you just want more, you can ask for a rate rise although the client probably won't accept these as good reasons, so may be difficult to get an increase from the client, but the agent could suck this up in order to keep a margin, or you could walk.