Reply to: entrepreneurs relief - Autumn Statement

[Mister Clark]

Time to cash in my chips I think.

[swebb]

I agree. Almost certainly once an announcement is made it will be too late.

If anyone is wanting to take ER, they might be well advised to get moving on it.

Yes well I plan to get a move on, however I was planning on doing that anyway.

[WordIsBond]

Premature perhaps but it can only get worse and will be too late (if it isn't already) by the time more details are known.

I agree. Almost certainly once an announcement is made it will be too late.

If anyone is wanting to take ER, they might be well advised to get moving on it.

[RockyBalboa]

Premature perhaps but it can only get worse and will be too late (if it isn't already) by the time more details are known.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

So is anyone going to instigate MVL given today's Autumn Statement?

Premature. No details at all right now other than tightening the existing rules.

[RockyBalboa]

Well as I said I was already planning on kicking off MVL anyway due to various personal reasons. However in the last few days I put that on hold until I heard todays statement. At the moment I think I will carry on with the plan to MVL unless there is something about the statement I didn't pick up on which could change my mind.

Just wondered if any MVL kicked off now will even complete by April next year.

[swebb]

So is anyone going to instigate MVL given today's Autumn Statement?

Well as I said I was already planning on kicking off MVL anyway due to various personal reasons. However in the last few days I put that on hold until I heard todays statement. At the moment I think I will carry on with the plan to MVL unless there is something about the statement I didn't pick up on which could change my mind.

[RockyBalboa]

So is anyone going to instigate MVL given today's Autumn Statement?

[swebb]

Just to reiterate we are all speculating to the max...but my guess would be IF they clobber it, they'd likely have some allowance for people who were already committed (which to mind would be have already appointed a liquidator), anyone else who was just thinking about it (I'd suggest you'd fall into this category) would be too late.

However, I don't think the above is good reason to try to do some mad panic rush to get into liquidation in the next ~36 hours...as it's just me guessing how they MIGHT do things IF they target it at all.

Well it isn't that I was thinking about it. For the last few weeks I have been moving money from my company savings accounts in to my company current account. I have filled in my final spreadsheet balancing everything up for my accountant and I'm currently waiting for him to tidy things up so that I can start the MVL procedure.

[Maslins]

And I'd assume this isn't possible if you haven't even started the process yet but are at the stage where the accountant has balanced the books and only CT and final VAT payments are required.

Just to reiterate we are all speculating to the max...but my guess would be IF they clobber it, they'd likely have some allowance for people who were already committed (which to mind would be have already appointed a liquidator), anyone else who was just thinking about it (I'd suggest you'd fall into this category) would be too late.

However, I don't think the above is good reason to try to do some mad panic rush to get into liquidation in the next ~36 hours...as it's just me guessing how they MIGHT do things IF they target it at all.

[swebb]

...but maybe the window will be much shorter than I'd anticipated, closing in two days time.

And I'd assume this isn't possible if you haven't even started the process yet but are at the stage where the accountant has balanced the books and only CT and final VAT payments are required.

[northernladuk]

Sad to say, but in light of the expected changes to IR35 and/or T&S claims, there is likely to be a stampede of contractors giving up and closing down their limited companies, so The Treasury may have foreseen that, and in the knowledge that a lot of PSCs have a fairly high warchest, decided not to allow the highly beneficial 10%

Surely the initial stampede would be from the gang of contractors that regularly close their LTDs with no intention to stop contracting and will be desperate to take last advantage of this. The smart thing for HMRC to do is give that lot just enough rope to hang themselves. Leave ER for just long enough for them all to apply and trip up. A majority of applicants can't be doing for business purposes so they make a ton of money without breaking sweat.

[Maslins]

Sad to say, but in light of the expected changes to IR35 and/or T&S claims, there is likely to be a stampede of contractors giving up and closing down their limited companies, so The Treasury may have foreseen that, and in the knowledge that a lot of PSCs have a fairly high warchest, decided not to allow the highly beneficial 10% ER rate to those people.

You may well be right...however, with a couple of recent big changes, HMRC have been nice (or stupid) in not doing the above. Main example that springs to mind is re LLPs.

They basically nerfed LLPs with Ltd Co partners which had been popular. Then about a year later, they changed the rules on goodwill, in terms of it qualifying for entrepreneurs relief when bought from related party and also tax relief on the amortisation. This then meant there was a nice window for all those LLPs to transfer the trade to the Ltd Co partner and get quite favourable tax treatment.

With any luck the same will happen here. Having said that, this was kinda my attitude when the dividend tax was announced, that it gave people ~9 months to tidy their affairs and shut up shop if they wanted to. I had anticipated your typical MVL/entrepreneurs relief ploy would be scuppered soon after...but maybe the window will be much shorter than I'd anticipated, closing in two days time.

Agree with others that typically when CGT changes are made, it's immediate, to prevent people suddenly rushing through transactions.

If the speculation is to be believed, it really ain't a great time to be a contractor (or indeed a firm with contractors as their main client base). Fingers crossed at least a large chunk of the speculation turns out to be no more than just that.

[jamesbrown]

"clarification" of the existing rules

Ugh. That's the sort of argument that was put forward in support of retrospection. Wouldn't that raise questions over the legitimacy of previous ER claims in these circumstances?

[philip@wellwoodhoyle]

I concur that such charges are usually immediate or with a relatively short timescale. Previous changes to capital gains tax have been. Not much previous form to suggest that any changes would be delayed to 6 April.

Sad to say, but in light of the expected changes to IR35 and/or T&S claims, there is likely to be a stampede of contractors giving up and closing down their limited companies, so The Treasury may have foreseen that, and in the knowledge that a lot of PSCs have a fairly high warchest, decided not to allow the highly beneficial 10% ER rate to those people. Wouldn't surprise me if they brought in (or tightened up) the qualifying conditions so that high "cash" balances weren't eligible for ER if they'd been built up over x number of years rather than realised recently from the sale of a business or asset. The CGT ER rules are spectacularly unclear about what "cash" balances would qualify anyway and it's been an area of uncertainty for years, so George could announce a "clarification" of the existing rules without making it a new law.

A very uncertain time to be a contractor.