How explicit schedule should be?

[squirrel99]

Thanks very much for the advice - all your comments were really useful and helped me to stand my ground.

I spoke to the agency to hear their standard answer that everyone else is fine with it. It was easier to handle them because I knew I was not being unreasonable (thanks for assuring me guys!). And Qdos backed me up - best £ I ever spent!

I prepared a schedule based on IPSE's schedule template, 'job' description, and what I was told at the interview. I included a clause about spending first week gathering client's requirements. Also I said that schedule may be amended if mutually agreed by my LTD and the client after the first week. I also included specific deliverables.

Agency agreed with every detail

It might not be ideal but I definitely feel much better about it now. Happy to have the contract sorted after all

[squirrel99]

To answer original question, as detailed as possible. If its a struggle, start be codifying the key performance variables, the things mentioned at interview, the things that if you didn't do could lead to termination, etc.

Thank you Jessica, that's exactly what I did. This was an excellent advice

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

To answer original question, as detailed as possible. If its a struggle, start be codifying the key performance variables, the things mentioned at interview, the things that if you didn't do could lead to termination, etc.

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

And BTW as I think you have guessed, agents always say "but everybody else is OK with it".

Which really means "we've fobbed everyone else off, we want an easy life"

[squirrel99]

The idea is to follow B2B practice and make two independent contracts. It might be in a form of separate schedules if each of them constitute a new contract. One for their needs analysis and another for work itself.

The first contract (a few days) is like a normal stage for requirements gathering, meetings and then actual contract negotiations. In the very real B2B it is normal to do that for free and definitely with no obligation whatsoever to offer/accept.

It might benefit you as you will commit yourself not so blindly. You might be simply not happy with your certain duties or working conditions.

P.S. But you have to balance between "the proper" thing and "realistic" one. It is your first contract and it might be very important for you. Try to argue politely and negotiate gently.
At least an employee does not negotiate a contract's terms Good luck!

Thank you for positive thoughts and details on how this can work in practice this is really something I was looking for.

I very much want and intend to keep it B2B, but also realise that not everything I read will be applicable in real life.

Lets hope I won't mess it up

[FK1]

Thanks

Do you mean to ask for a draft schedule to be included in contract, and then detailed schedule to be signed off within a week from starting the work?

The idea is to follow B2B practice and make two independent contracts. It might be in a form of separate schedules if each of them constitute a new contract. One for their needs analysis and another for work itself.

The first contract (a few days) is like a normal stage for requirements gathering, meetings and then actual contract negotiations. In the very real B2B it is normal to do that for free and definitely with no obligation whatsoever to offer/accept.

It might benefit you as you will commit yourself not so blindly. You might be simply not happy with your certain duties or working conditions.

P.S. But you have to balance between "the proper" thing and "realistic" one. It is your first contract and it might be very important for you. Try to argue politely and negotiate gently.
At least an employee does not negotiate a contract's terms Good luck!

[squirrel99]

I wouldn't. I would ask for two agreements. The first for one week to determine a client's needs and then the second as normal one. It would be then reflect B2B much better.

Thanks

Do you mean to ask for a draft schedule to be included in contract, and then detailed schedule to be signed off within a week from starting the work?

[FK1]

I did quite a bit of reading, but this is still unclear - hopefully it's ok to ask

How does schedule normally look like? My contract doesn't include any deliverables, only says:

The provision of specialist services as Programme Administrator. The contract provides that the services will be defined within 48 hours of the start of the agreement between the company and the hirer.

Would you accept this?

Qdos says the contract is outside IR35, but suggests to ask for a schedule of actual deliverables before signing the contract.

I wouldn't. I would ask for two agreements. The first for one week to determine a client's needs and then the second as normal one. It would be then reflect B2B much better.

[squirrel99]

And BTW as I think you have guessed, agents always say "but everybody else is OK with it".

Yes, I noticed... I'll get Qdos to liaise with the agent if he doesn't cooperate. Thanks

[expat]

And BTW as I think you have guessed, agents always say "but everybody else is OK with it".

[squirrel99]

The contract might be out side IR35 but your working practices will trump that ultimately. You go in to a situation where D&C is almost a given the regardless of how tight you contract is you are stuffed.

Thank you Northernladuk, this is really helpful. I'll push the agency for explicit schedule before signing anything. Better be safe.

[northernladuk]

The contract might be out side IR35 but your working practices will trump that ultimately. You go in to a situation where D&C is almost a given the regardless of how tight you contract is you are stuffed.

[squirrel99]

Thanks for reply

I was confused as Qdos said I am outside IR35. Only when I called them to ask about this clause specifically they said 'well it would be better if you get the schedule now'.

So I will try to get the schedule before signing the contract, but I wanted to make sure I am being reasonable before calling my agency (again) tomorrow morning. They know it's my first contract and their answer to my requests is 'believe me - all consultants do it this way.'

I didn't look at it as a control thing considering that it's a part of the contract - to agree the deliverables at the beginning of the contract. Would it be a good idea to remove this clause then?

[northernladuk]

So as soon as you start they will exercise direction and Control over you? That's truly awful.

QDOS are experts in their field. If they say get one why are you asking us?

[squirrel99]

I did quite a bit of reading, but this is still unclear - hopefully it's ok to ask

How does schedule normally look like? My contract doesn't include any deliverables, only says:

The provision of specialist services as Programme Administrator. The contract provides that the services will be defined within 48 hours of the start of the agreement between the company and the hirer.

Would you accept this?

Qdos says the contract is outside IR35, but suggests to ask for a schedule of actual deliverables before signing the contract.