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Reply to: Normal Accountant Duties
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Previously on "Normal Accountant Duties"
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Originally posted by midheach View PostAre the following considered normal accounting duties or am I asking too much?
I actually went on a free VAT course at the local HMRC offices run by a former VAT inspector a few years ago, and she advised that as a small business person you should be doing your own VAT returns NOT your accountant.
The reasons for this are:
1. They are simple to do especially for those on the flat rate scheme
2. They ensure you keep your book keeping up to date
3. You are legally responsible for the returns as the company director/owner
As already stated an accountant cannot give you financial advice so you need to pay for an IFA to give you relevant advice. Alternatively you can research the area yourself.
In regards to finding out your entitlements this is your responsibility as company director. You have found this site and there are others where you can gleam information from on what may be a good idea.
What I tend to do is:
1. Find the information out for myself either due to searching for it or just because someone brought it up somewhere like here.
2. Look for more information on it particularly checking out HMRC's pages
3. Ask one of the accountants I know personally about the subject- this doesn't constitute advice as I'm not paying for it.*
4. Confirm with my accountant whether this is a good idea.
However a few contractors I know have ended up with accountants who have a different interpretation of tax rules from HMRC on some matters so they have ended up parting company.
*People in various professions will give you information as a small business owner but unless you are paying them for it is not advice and they have no duty to give you correct information.
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Originally posted by midheach View PostThanks for taking the time to respond to my query. Next time stick to facts and don't waste your time and mine airing your subjective views.
Given the nature of your vague questions indicate your lack of knowledge on the matters you sought help, it is not subjective to deduce a little unpreparedness for running a company on your behalf.
Take the advice or not. /shrug.
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Originally posted by midheach View PostHi All,
I recently started up and limited company and have been contracting through it. However, I am having trouble identifying what my accountant should be handling and what I should be handling myself.
Are the following considered normal accounting duties or am I asking too much?
1. Fill out VAT Registration form and send to HMRC (I was told to fill this out myself and return - advice was given but it was done reluctantly)
2. Companies House returns (After some debate the accountant handled this)
3. Advise on whether running a company pension scheme is financially beneficial (I was directed to a pension company and told to make the decision myself)
4. Advise on whether to register the company for a childcare voucher scheme is financially beneficial (I was directed to HMRCs calculator and told to make a decision myself)
Also, is the onus on me or the accountant to ensure I am benefitting from all entitlements? So far it has been me asking all the questions about different benefits rather than the accountant advising me of what I'm entitled to.
Thanks in advance.
One thing I would mention is that very few accountants are qualified to give specific advice with regards to pensions and investments and I would advise you to approach a specialist IFA for proper advice.
Graeme Bennett ACMA, MBA
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Go on, I'll bite...
Originally posted by midheach View Post1. Fill out VAT Registration form and send to HMRC (I was told to fill this out myself and return - advice was given but it was done reluctantly)
Originally posted by midheach View Post2. Companies House returns (After some debate the accountant handled this)
Originally posted by midheach View Post3. Advise on whether running a company pension scheme is financially beneficial (I was directed to a pension company and told to make the decision myself)
Originally posted by midheach View Post4. Advise on whether to register the company for a childcare voucher scheme is financially beneficial (I was directed to HMRCs calculator and told to make a decision myself)
Originally posted by midheach View PostAlso, is the onus on me or the accountant to ensure I am benefitting from all entitlements? So far it has been me asking all the questions about different benefits rather than the accountant advising me of what I'm entitled to.
Originally posted by midheach View PostThanks in advance.
At the end of the day, you need to make sure that you're both working to the same instructions, and it doesn't appear that you are. You have significantly higher expectations of your accountant than they think they need to provide. I'd suggest having a chat with them about your concerns and putting together a detailed list of who will do what and for what charges that will incur. Having done that, at least you will know what you are likely to get and can make a decision about whether you want to stay there or move.
But I doubt you'll get much more for the kind of money you are paying.
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Originally posted by midheach View PostAre the following considered normal accounting duties or am I asking too much?
1. Fill out VAT Registration form and send to HMRC (I was told to fill this out myself and return - advice was given but it was done reluctantly)
2. Companies House returns (After some debate the accountant handled this)
3. Advise on whether running a company pension scheme is financially beneficial (I was directed to a pension company and told to make the decision myself)
4. Advise on whether to register the company for a childcare voucher scheme is financially beneficial (I was directed to HMRCs calculator and told to make a decision myself)
Also, is the onus on me or the accountant to ensure I am benefitting from all entitlements? So far it has been me asking all the questions about different benefits rather than the accountant advising me of what I'm entitled to.
1) we tend to do for clients.
2) we get clients to do (assuming you mean the annual return), with us reminding them when it's due and helping if they get stuck. It's typically just a case of clicking "confirm" half a dozen times then paying a £13 fee.
3) as someone else pointed out, accountants typically aren't FCA registered so need to be careful not to provide investment advice. Typically we'd discuss the tax benefits available but beyond that it needs to be down to the client.
4) typically as for (3).
Re your final general paragraph, it's a tricky balance. Your accountant will never know what you might be thinking about buying, so it's impossible for us to give you perfectly tailored advice without you asking us the question first. We could bombard you with the million and one possible things some contractors sometimes claim for...but that's not normally helpful as you then have to read a ton of stuff picking out the occasional nuggets that'll benefit you.
Given you're paying £500-600/year, certainly doesn't sound like you're getting a bad deal to me. Afraid it does seem like you might be expecting a bit much. You also need to remember that as a Ltd Co contractor you're now a business owner. Your accountant can and should help with lots of things, but it's not their role to make business decisions for you. Someone else said that to you and you snapped at them...but it's true!
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Originally posted by Alan @ BroomeAffinity View PostI was going to give you a detailed breakdown of what is typical in a "pay monthly" type arrangement and what you'd expect from an annual £600 fee. But, seeing your response to Tractor, I'm not going to bother.
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I was going to give you a detailed breakdown of what is typical in a "pay monthly" type arrangement and what you'd expect from an annual £600 fee. But, seeing your response to Tractor, I'm not going to bother.
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Originally posted by midheach View PostThanks for taking the time to respond to my query. Next time stick to facts and don't waste your time and mine airing your subjective views.
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Originally posted by tractor View PostWhat you can expect of your accountant should be contained in the contract between you. If there is none, you should have a chat with them and ask them to state specifically what their service involves.
From the above, it would appear that you expect them to run your company and make decisions for you. You expect too much. Especially for No 3 where unless they are registered and qualified, they are forbidden from giving professional financial advice in that respect.
The rest of it is all about you running your own company. 1. is no headache, just a simple form (I would want to fill it in to ensure that all my bank details were correct - many accountants in the past have made errors in this respect). 2. is an annual chore that unless there are mega changes during the year like huge numbers of share transactions, takes only a few minutes and can be completed online. 4. If you are unable to make a decision as to whether there is any benefit in childcare vouchers to you, what hope is there in you making decisions as a contractor on behalf of your client?
I don't mean to sound harsh but there is a lot more to owning and running a business than sipping champagne and driving the Aston.
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Originally posted by TheCyclingProgrammer View PostYour accountant should be advise on tax matters relating to pensions but not actual financial advice.
Your accountant should have outlined what they will do in your letter of engagement.
If you want to keep costs down you can use an online bookkeeping tool like FreeAgent, Xero etc. and do your own books but only if you know what you are doing and have an accountant who can keep an eye on things.
Submitting annual returns is a 5 minute job and VAT returns aren't that complicated normally if your circumstances are straightforward.
Getting YourCo to pay for childcare is normally going to be beneficial for you if you're already paying for childcare. You can set up a voucher scheme, use a third-party or contract with the childcare provider directly and pay direct from YourCo (saves on scheme administration costs). Bear in mind that the childcare voucher system is changing soon.
I don't have a letter of engagement from him. I just have an email stating that he handles accounts and all dealings with HMRC and Companies House.
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Originally posted by midheach View PostThe quoted fee is approx £500-600 per annum
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Your accountant should be advise on tax matters relating to pensions but not actual financial advice.
Your accountant should have outlined what they will do in your letter of engagement.
If you want to keep costs down you can use an online bookkeeping tool like FreeAgent, Xero etc. and do your own books but only if you know what you are doing and have an accountant who can keep an eye on things.
Submitting annual returns is a 5 minute job and VAT returns aren't that complicated normally if your circumstances are straightforward.
Getting YourCo to pay for childcare is normally going to be beneficial for you if you're already paying for childcare. You can set up a voucher scheme, use a third-party or contract with the childcare provider directly and pay direct from YourCo (saves on scheme administration costs). Bear in mind that the childcare voucher system is changing soon.
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It sounds as though you have signed up with a Bookkeeping service, as opposed to an Accounting service, to me?
How much are you being charged, per month/annum?
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