Reply to: Offsite business meetings

[tractor]

...

Yes, you're probably right.

So to summarise the breadth of knowledge:

'Just MHO but there is more chance of being hit by low flying pork than HMRC accepting this as an expense'
'Thoughts? Well, what a load of bollocks really.'
'So if you add pumping the wife on a dirty weekend as part of her job description its tax deductible ?'
'So if you add pumping the company secretary on a dirty weekend as part of her job description its tax deductible ?'

'A typical Saturday morning at Mr & Mrs Pacontracting's house.

pac "Good morning dear. Would you like a coffee?"
Mrs pac "Yes, dear. Thanks"
pac "It's a lovely day. We should go for a walk"
Mrs pac "You've got a letter from HMRC"
pac "DON'T OPEN IT IN THE HOUSE!"
Mrs pac "Why not?"
pac "I choose to keep my company business and private life separate. Cancel the walk. We'd better book a hotel in (town 50 miles away) so I can read it".
'Hell, I can't even think about doing anything business related if I'm not sharing a hot tub in Las Vegas with a few strippers '
You're just waiting for others to agree with you that its ok to do what you do (take missus away for a romantic bang and claim it on the business under the guise of a business strategy meeting).

The rest of the advice, particularly from the professionals - thanks.

To be fair, you are asking for views on you taking the p out of the system. Expect to have the p taken out of you as a result. The longer you have been a contractor, the more p will be extracted. If you don't like stupid answers, don't ask stupid questions.

As has been pointed out, it matters not what the internet thingy says about this, MTFU and call HMRC on Monday and ask them what they think. My advice? Assume the position before you call. It will give you time to get comfortable for the inevitable.

[BolshieBastard]

What am amazing comment!

So you take a look at my profile and assume the day I joined ContractorUK was the day I started contracting? You should change your name to 'Sherlock'.

I've been contracting now, as a Ltd Co Director, for around 10 years and, surprisingly, I've usually had better things to do with my time than picking a silly name, adding an equally silly picture and then pretend to be the font of all knowledge on contracting issues (and this doesn't just apply to you Mr. Bastard).

The reason for the post in the first place (and don't confuse lack of posts for experience ) is:

1/ This is a contentious issue. I wanted to run it out there to see what supposedly knowledgeable people thought.
2/ There are blogs out there suggesting HMRC are lenient to this sort of activity Optimum PAYE - October 2010 - Staff Entertainment Tax Issues (see 'away' days')
3/ Large organisations are doing it Iceland boss who took 800 managers on dream trip to Disneyworld is sent £2.5MILLION tax bill because it counts as a perk | Daily Mail Online (he got it wrong in this obviously extreme example!)
4/ HMRC themselves get involved Tax boss most wined and dined mandarin
5/ Advice from a director of an accountant firm How to avoid taxing the corporate away day | Business intelligence for recruitment and resourcing professionals

Are we, as contractors, missing out on something. You can't tell me that David Hartnett's sole purpose for visiting Wimbledon, the Chelsea Flower show and so on was 'wholly etc' to discuss business? Why not invite his suitors to his office instead for a cup of tea and a chat! All I was after is for someone to say - hmm interesting but too risky for me or no - definitely disallowed - see here.

Finally - if you've got nothing constructive to add to the conversation, move along. Don't read the post. A lot of comments weren't needed but if you want to give out, don't be offended if you get it back.

Never looked at your profile as the list of visitors will show.

For someone who's supposedly been contracting for 10 years (yeah, ok then) you show a remarkable lack of awareness of what you can and cannot claim.

You repeatedly asked for everyone to agree that taking the wife away and slipping her a couple of lengths could be claimed under the guise of a 'business strategy meeting.' Virtually everyone laughed at you and I guess being a contractor of '10 years' probably pricked yer bubble.

But, you still came back for more so dont be suprised if you got a bit of a pasting.

Now, away with the hissy fit

[TykeMerc]

1/ This is a contentious issue. I wanted to run it out there to see what supposedly knowledgeable people thought. I picked the wrong group - obviously.
2/ There are blogs out there suggesting HMRC are lenient to this sort of activity .

1. You asked, you got clear responses from experienced contractors and accounting professionals early on in the thread, none of those views gave you a rosy feeling and you've continued to argue. If you're not happy with the responses then you're entirely free to ask for free advice elsewhere.

2. If you're comfortable going with HMRC being "lenient" then fill your boots, you came for free advice and opinions, if you disagree with those then so be it.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

What am amazing comment!

So you take a look at my profile and assume the day I joined ContractorUK was the day I started contracting? You should change your name to 'Sherlock'.

I've been contracting now for around 10 years and, surprisingly, I've usually had better things to do with my time than picking a silly name, adding an equally silly picture and then pretend to be the font of all knowledge on contracting issues (and this doesn't just apply to you Mr. Bastard).

The reason for the post in the first place (and don't confuse lack of posts for experience ) is:

1/ This is a contentious issue. I wanted to run it out there to see what supposedly knowledgeable people thought. I picked the wrong group - obviously.
2/ There are blogs out there suggesting HMRC are lenient to this sort of activity Optimum PAYE - October 2010 - Staff Entertainment Tax Issues (see 'away' days')
3/ Large organisations are doing it Iceland boss who took 800 managers on dream trip to Disneyworld is sent £2.5MILLION tax bill because it counts as a perk | Daily Mail Online (he got it wrong!)
4/ HMRC themselves get involved Tax boss most wined and dined mandarin

Are we, as contractors, missing out on something. You can't tell me that David Hartnett's sole purpose for visiting Wimbledon, the Chelsea Flower show and so on was 'wholly etc' to discuss business? Why not invite his suitors to his office instead for a cup of tea and a chat!

Finally - if you've got nothing constructive to add to the conversation, move along. Don't read the post. A lot of comments weren't needed but if you want to give out, don't be offended if you get it back.

There are many blogs on the internet saying many things and offering many opinions but they are just that - opinions. At the end of the day, in the event of a tax investigation the only real opinions that count are those of HMRC and the specialist lawyer that you will no doubt end up having to hire to defend your position. By the same token - you have cited one opinion which supports your view yet chosen to ignore the many opinions on here which do not so I doubt that you will be engaging with anyone unless they agree with you.

The Disneyland episode pretty much sums up HMRC's opinion on going out on jollies under the pretext of doing business

There is a difference between entertaining potential customers and taking your wife away for the weekend to chat about the business.

Saying all that you obviously believe that you are correct in your assumptions only you will have to explain them to HMRC so go ahead and claim - you neither want nor need our approval

[pacontracting]

Look, stop messing about. You've been contracting what, 2 years and you're pretending to know more than people who've been in the game for a lot longer. We're not wet behind the ears contractors like you.

You're just waiting for others to agree with you that its ok to do what you do (take missus away for a romantic bang and claim it on the business under the guise of a business strategy meeting).

You've even got the free advice of a couple of accountancy business here and still dont like what you are hearing.

Go for it. You might not be investigated by HMRC. But stop asking people who are more experienced than you for information if you dont like what they tell you.

What am amazing comment!

So you take a look at my profile and assume the day I joined ContractorUK was the day I started contracting? You should change your name to 'Sherlock'.

I've been contracting now, as a Ltd Co Director, for around 10 years and, surprisingly, I've usually had better things to do with my time than picking a silly name, adding an equally silly picture and then pretend to be the font of all knowledge on contracting issues (and this doesn't just apply to you Mr. Bastard).

The reason for the post in the first place (and don't confuse lack of posts for experience ) is:

1/ This is a contentious issue. I wanted to run it out there to see what supposedly knowledgeable people thought.
2/ There are blogs out there suggesting HMRC are lenient to this sort of activity Optimum PAYE - October 2010 - Staff Entertainment Tax Issues (see 'away' days')
3/ Large organisations are doing it Iceland boss who took 800 managers on dream trip to Disneyworld is sent £2.5MILLION tax bill because it counts as a perk | Daily Mail Online (he got it wrong in this obviously extreme example!)
4/ HMRC themselves get involved Tax boss most wined and dined mandarin
5/ Advice from a director of an accountant firm http://www.recruiter.co.uk/expert-ad...rate-away-day/

Are we, as contractors, missing out on something. You can't tell me that David Hartnett's sole purpose for visiting Wimbledon, the Chelsea Flower show and so on was 'wholly etc' to discuss business? Why not invite his suitors to his office instead for a cup of tea and a chat! All I was after is for someone to say - hmm interesting but too risky for me or no - definitely disallowed - see here.

Finally - if you've got nothing constructive to add to the conversation, move along. Don't read the post. A lot of comments weren't needed but if you want to give out, don't be offended if you get it back.

[kingcook]

Every quarter, myself and my wife (the only two directors of the company) go away to a country hotel to discuss strategy

Riiiiiggghhhhhttttt.....

[GazCol]

Yes, you're probably right.

So to summarise the breadth of knowledge:

'Just MHO but there is more chance of being hit by low flying pork than HMRC accepting this as an expense'
'Thoughts? Well, what a load of bollocks really.'
'So if you add pumping the wife on a dirty weekend as part of her job description its tax deductible ?'
'So if you add pumping the company secretary on a dirty weekend as part of her job description its tax deductible ?'

'A typical Saturday morning at Mr & Mrs Pacontracting's house.

pac "Good morning dear. Would you like a coffee?"
Mrs pac "Yes, dear. Thanks"
pac "It's a lovely day. We should go for a walk"
Mrs pac "You've got a letter from HMRC"
pac "DON'T OPEN IT IN THE HOUSE!"
Mrs pac "Why not?"
pac "I choose to keep my company business and private life separate. Cancel the walk. We'd better book a hotel in (town 50 miles away) so I can read it".
'Hell, I can't even think about doing anything business related if I'm not sharing a hot tub in Las Vegas with a few strippers '
You're just waiting for others to agree with you that its ok to do what you do (take missus away for a romantic bang and claim it on the business under the guise of a business strategy meeting).

The rest of the advice, particularly from the professionals - thanks.

So, moral of the story is ask stupid questions, expect stupid answers?

[Batcher]

Yes, you're probably right.

So to summarise the breadth of knowledge:

'Just MHO but there is more chance of being hit by low flying pork than HMRC accepting this as an expense'
'Thoughts? Well, what a load of bollocks really.'
'So if you add pumping the wife on a dirty weekend as part of her job description its tax deductible ?'
'So if you add pumping the company secretary on a dirty weekend as part of her job description its tax deductible ?'

'A typical Saturday morning at Mr & Mrs Pacontracting's house.

pac "Good morning dear. Would you like a coffee?"
Mrs pac "Yes, dear. Thanks"
pac "It's a lovely day. We should go for a walk"
Mrs pac "You've got a letter from HMRC"
pac "DON'T OPEN IT IN THE HOUSE!"
Mrs pac "Why not?"
pac "I choose to keep my company business and private life separate. Cancel the walk. We'd better book a hotel in (town 50 miles away) so I can read it".
'Hell, I can't even think about doing anything business related if I'm not sharing a hot tub in Las Vegas with a few strippers '
You're just waiting for others to agree with you that its ok to do what you do (take missus away for a romantic bang and claim it on the business under the guise of a business strategy meeting).

The rest of the advice, particularly from the professionals - thanks.

You got the professional advice early on. After you didn't get the response you were looking for and tried to jusitfy your position, everyone got bored and started joking around whilst still making the point.

HTH

[pacontracting]

God I hate these posts where someone asks a question with absolutely no intention of listening to the feedback and then goes on a crusade to justify it. They are just pointless.

Move to general IMO.

Yes, you're probably right.

So to summarise the breadth of knowledge:

'Just MHO but there is more chance of being hit by low flying pork than HMRC accepting this as an expense'
'Thoughts? Well, what a load of bollocks really.'
'So if you add pumping the wife on a dirty weekend as part of her job description its tax deductible ?'
'So if you add pumping the company secretary on a dirty weekend as part of her job description its tax deductible ?'

'A typical Saturday morning at Mr & Mrs Pacontracting's house.

pac "Good morning dear. Would you like a coffee?"
Mrs pac "Yes, dear. Thanks"
pac "It's a lovely day. We should go for a walk"
Mrs pac "You've got a letter from HMRC"
pac "DON'T OPEN IT IN THE HOUSE!"
Mrs pac "Why not?"
pac "I choose to keep my company business and private life separate. Cancel the walk. We'd better book a hotel in (town 50 miles away) so I can read it".
'Hell, I can't even think about doing anything business related if I'm not sharing a hot tub in Las Vegas with a few strippers '
You're just waiting for others to agree with you that its ok to do what you do (take missus away for a romantic bang and claim it on the business under the guise of a business strategy meeting).

The rest of the advice, particularly from the professionals - thanks.

[TheFaQQer]

Equally, JRCT's house

mrsjrct "We need more money"
jrct "Just get it from our account - my wages went in yesterday"
mrsjrct "I can't. It's in that new fangled business account your accountant told us to set up"
jrct "I think you're confusing the business account with our personal one, silly"
mrsjrct "oh yes, how daft of me. Oh look, we've got loads of money in the bank, because as you said, your salary went in yesterday"

FTFY

1) Why do you assume that a woman can't work a business bank account?
2) What kind of business bank accounts are so confusing that she can't work it?
3) Why is she trying to get the money out of the business account for personal expenses - is she planning an overnight trip somewhere?

[BolshieBastard]

Equally, JRCT's house

mrsjrct "We need more money"
jrct "Just get it from our account - my wages went in yesterday"
mrsjrct "I can't. It's in that new fangled business account your accountant told us to set up"
jrct "How much is in there"
mrsjrct "It's overdrawn by about £2k
jrct "ok - take out a couple of grand then"
mrsjrct "shall I just set up a direct debit to take out a couple of grand every month? Much easier"
jrct "ok. By the way, the bank sent a debit card. Just take cash out on this if you need it"
mrsjrct "When's our tax due? I'm sure I saw a letter from HMRC under the cat's basket. Come to think about, little Jane had another one. Bless her, she likes colouring in all the circles next to the £ sign in red to match the letter heading"
jrct "Don't know - our accountant will sort that out. Just putting the statements in the envelope now"
mrsjrct "Do you want me to post it?"
jrct "Thanks. Second class mind you. We don't NEED to sent it first class."

Look, stop messing about. You've been contracting what, 2 years and you're pretending to know more than people who've been in the game for a lot longer. We're not wet behind the ears contractors like you.

You're just waiting for others to agree with you that its ok to do what you do (take missus away for a romantic bang and claim it on the business under the guise of a business strategy meeting).

You've even got the free advice of a couple of accountancy business here and still dont like what you are hearing.

Go for it. You might not be investigated by HMRC. But stop asking people who are more experienced than you for information if you dont like what they tell you.

[JRCT]

Equally, JRCT's house

mrsjrct "We need more money"
jrct "Just get it from our account - my wages went in yesterday"
mrsjrct "I can't. It's in that new fangled business account your accountant told us to set up"
jrct "How much is in there"
mrsjrct "It's overdrawn by about £2k
jrct "ok - take out a couple of grand then"
mrsjrct "shall I just set up a direct debit to take out a couple of grand every month? Much easier"
jrct "ok. By the way, the bank sent a debit card. Just take cash out on this if you need it"
mrsjrct "When's our tax due? I'm sure I saw a letter from HMRC under the cat's basket. Come to think about, little Jane had another one. Bless her, she likes colouring in all the circles next to the £ sign in red to match the letter heading"
jrct "Don't know - our accountant will sort that out. Just putting the statements in the envelope now"
mrsjrct "Do you want me to post it?"
jrct "Thanks. Second class mind you. We don't NEED to sent it first class."

Close. But it's more likely.

mrsjrct "We need more money"
jrct "Just get it from our account - my wages went in yesterday"
mrsjrct "Ok. Actually, there's loads in here. We don't need more money after all".
jrct "Yes, that's because it hasn't been spent on unnecessary trips to hotels to 'talk about business stuff' that could easily be discussed over a coffee at home"
mrsjrct "You're a very astute business man"
jrct "I know"
mrsjrct "Fancy a 'coffee'?"

[northernladuk]

God I hate these posts where someone asks a question with absolutely no intention of listening to the feedback and then goes on a crusade to justify it. They are just pointless.

Move to general IMO.

[Batcher]

Equally, JRCT's house

mrsjrct "We need more money"
jrct "Just get it from our account - my wages went in yesterday"
mrsjrct "I can't. It's in that new fangled business account your accountant told us to set up"
jrct "How much is in there"
mrsjrct "It's overdrawn by about £2k
jrct "ok - take out a couple of grand then"
mrsjrct "shall I just set up a direct debit to take out a couple of grand every month? Much easier"
jrct "ok. By the way, the bank sent a debit card. Just take cash out on this if you need it"
mrsjrct "By the way, when's our tax due? I'm sure I saw a letter from HMRC under the cat's basket"
jrct "Don't know - our accountant will sort that out"

[pacontracting]

A typical Saturday morning at Mr & Mrs Pacontracting's house.

pac "Good morning dear. Would you like a coffee?"
Mrs pac "Yes, dear. Thanks"
pac "It's a lovely day. We should go for a walk"
Mrs pac "You've got a letter from HMRC"
pac "DON'T OPEN IT IN THE HOUSE!"
Mrs pac "Why not?"
pac "I choose to keep my company business and private life separate. Cancel the walk. We'd better book a hotel in (town 50 miles away) so I can read it".

Equally, JRCT's house

mrsjrct "We need more money"
jrct "Just get it from our account - my wages went in yesterday"
mrsjrct "I can't. It's in that new fangled business account your accountant told us to set up"
jrct "How much is in there"
mrsjrct "It's overdrawn by about £2k
jrct "ok - take out a couple of grand then"
mrsjrct "shall I just set up a direct debit to take out a couple of grand every month? Much easier"
jrct "ok. By the way, the bank sent a debit card. Just take cash out on this if you need it"
mrsjrct "When's our tax due? I'm sure I saw a letter from HMRC under the cat's basket. Come to think about, little Jane had another one. Bless her, she likes colouring in all the circles next to the £ sign in red to match the letter heading"
jrct "Don't know - our accountant will sort that out. Just putting the statements in the envelope now"
mrsjrct "Do you want me to post it?"
jrct "Thanks. Second class mind you. We don't NEED to sent it first class."