Reply to: Job Agency - pushing their PSL umbrella company

[DiscoStu]

It's not that I'm not listening, I just don't understand it all.
I have had 3 years of very simple timesheet submission / same day payments & all this is new and confusing.

Here's my understanding of your situation.

You're in a contract at the moment. You're working through an umbrella company. There is a contract for services between the umbrella company and the agency.

This means the agency, subject to certain caveats, is obliged to pay the umbrella company for any work you do for the period of this contract. You have a contract of employment with the umbrella company which means it will pay you what it receives from the agency for your services, minus their fees, tax and NI.

In order for you to switch to working through your own Ltd company, the agency would have to issue a new contract between itself and your Ltd company. Your Ltd company would then invoice the agency for any work you do. The easiest time to do this would be the point at which your contract is renewed.

[Magpie252]

Or, no mater what I do, under all circumstances, the past 5weeks timesheets MUST go through the umbrella?
Thanks

If that's what the agent has decided they WANT, that's what MUST happen, you have no choice

[northernladuk]

It's not that I'm not listening, I just don't understand it all.
I have had 3years of very simple timesheet submission / same day payments & all this is new and confusing.

No one said contracting was easy...

[bob132]

It's not that I'm not listening, I just don't understand it all.
I have had 3years of very simple timesheet submission / same day payments & all this is new and confusing.

[DiscoStu]

Hi Magpie - Are you saying that if I resign, I can then request that the agency (not umbrella) pay everything to the limited company and I can cut out anything to do with the umbrella?

Or, no mater what I do, under all circumstances, the past 5weeks timesheets MUST go through the umbrella?
Thanks

You're not listening are you?

The agency has a contract with your umbrella company, not with your Ltd company. The agency is obliged to pay the umbrella company for the work you do, not your Ltd company.

As I suggested previously, wait until this contract ends and if you're renewed switch to your limited company at that point when you get a new contract issued.

[bob132]

Exactly - that's what you signed up for, how did you expect to get paid?
Why lie?, tell the Umbrella that their services are no longer required, agree any termination clauses, bill until your agreed end date

Hi Magpie - Are you saying that if I resign, I can then request that the agency (not umbrella) pay everything to the limited company and I can cut out anything to do with the umbrella?

Or, no mater what I do, under all circumstances, the past 5weeks timesheets MUST go through the umbrella?
Thanks

[Magpie252]

break

Oops, I’d apologise if this wasn’t CUK

So eff off you :nazi:

[TheFaQQer]

A contract is still in place between the agency and the umbrella.

While the umbrella may be happy to brake the contract between you and themselves, you cannot force the agency to brake their contract with the umbrella (even if the umbrella agrees)

Bottom line, you signed up to the end of a chain of legally binding contracts, if one party doesn’t agree to brake the chain, there’s nothing you can do

break

[DiscoStu]

A contract is still in place between the agency and the umbrella.

While the umbrella may be happy to brake the contract between you and themselves, you cannot force the agency to brake their contract with the umbrella (even if the umbrella agrees)

Bottom line, you signed up to the end of a chain of legally binding contracts, if one party doesn’t agree to brake the chain, there’s nothing you can do

It's true, these contracts are very hard to slow down...

[Magpie252]

A contract is still in place between the agency and the umbrella.

While the umbrella may be happy to brake the contract between you and themselves, you cannot force the agency to brake their contract with the umbrella (even if the umbrella agrees)

Bottom line, you signed up to the end of a chain of legally binding contracts, if one party doesn’t agree to brake the chain, there’s nothing you can do

[TheFaQQer]

Spoken to the umbrella company - they don't care if I terminate - they haven't been billed anything as I haven't submitted any timesheets. They are happy for me to terminate...
The job agency only need to cancel things with them and I don't owe them a penny they said.

The job agency are being the awkward ones. According to the umbrella company it is the agency who are insisting I put the timesheets through the umbrella.

Well, since the agency are the ones with all the power, you are kind of screwed. They have a contract in place with the umbrella, and you are now asking them to terminate that contract and to create a new one with another entity which may or may not exist yet.

They also have a contract with the client, which usually stipulates the time period in which they need to bill for work, so it is in their interest to bill the client for work as soon as they can. If you are looking to delay that period, then they may find themselves in a situation whereby they are liable to pay you but the client isn't liable to pay them, which naturally they would want to avoid.

Apart from trying again to get the agency to change their minds, I don't see anything else that you can do but to bow to their demands.

[DiscoStu]

The agency have a contract with your umbrella company, not with you. The agency should be paying the umbrella for any work you perform.

You could make this situation far easier on yourself by staying with the umbrella until renewal time and have the new contract drawn up between the agency and your limited company then.

[SueEllen]

Spoken to the umbrella company - they don't care if I terminate - they haven't been billed anything as I haven't submitted any timesheets. They are happy for me to terminate...
The job agency only need to cancel things with them and I don't owe them a penny they said.

The job agency are being the awkward ones. According to the umbrella company it is the agency who are insisting I put the timesheets through the umbrella.

The agency don't want any trouble with HMRC so if you haven't set up your own limited company they will force you to use an umbrella on their PSL. This stops them being liable for any tax or NI you haven't paid.

So you need to either set up a limited, or you need to use an umbrella they are happy with.

I also suggest you check your contract as some agents have a time limit on how long you can take before you submit timesheets and invoices. So if you don't submit them within 6-8 weeks they won't pay up.

[bob132]

Spoken to the umbrella company - they don't care if I terminate - they haven't been billed anything as I haven't submitted any timesheets. They are happy for me to terminate...
The job agency only need to cancel things with them and I don't owe them a penny they said.

The job agency are being the awkward ones. According to the umbrella company it is the agency who are insisting I put the timesheets through the umbrella.

[Magpie252]

So get the timesheets authorised? but it's my understanding that this would mean they are processed behind the scenes for payment through the umbrella?

Exactly - that's what you signed up for, how did you expect to get paid?

should I tell the umbrella I've lost the contract first? get things cancelled?
should I invoice and submit timesheets? then resign?

Why lie?, tell the Umbrella that their services are no longer required, agree any termination clauses, bill until your agreed end date