Reply to: Security Clearance Again

[bob hopkins]

thanks for the reply, im not bothered about telling anyone-everyone makes mistakes- some are unlucky and get caught out. will tell them everything on the form.

I think the way they check- ie forms and paperwork is a bit silly, paper doesnt always show the truth. interviews are probably more realiabe but they seem to only do them for DV or in extreme cases of SC.

makes sense that they couldnt work for the police- pillars of society and all, the MOD is a bit different- the army is full of people in similar situations as myself

[SueEllen]

Now then

Offered a job on a MOD site and been told i need to apply for SC

Willing to do this but like most people i have a few worries about this

- from the age of 19-20 i was arrested 4 times- 1 caution, i fine for public order, one on the spot fine for drunk and disorderly. two of these occurred a week after my grandads funeral which was bit of a pain. the other arrest turned out to be a mistake-

Apart from that all is good- good credit score, no bad debts (apart from student debts D. 5 years in the Territorial Army with no problems such as court martials.

was wondering if anyone knows hows this would affect the SC

It won't just tell the truth on your forms. If you openly admit things then you are not easy to blackmail.

I've met people who have minor offences like yours and have got defence clearance but have not been able to do work for the police.

[bob hopkins]

bit of help

Now then

Offered a job on a MOD site and been told i need to apply for SC

Willing to do this but like most people i have a few worries about this

- from the age of 19-20 i was arrested 4 times- 1 caution, i fine for public order, one on the spot fine for drunk and disorderly. two of these occurred a week after my grandads funeral which was bit of a pain. the other arrest turned out to be a mistake-

Apart from that all is good- good credit score, no bad debts (apart from student debts D. 5 years in the Territorial Army with no problems such as court martials.

was wondering if anyone knows hows this would affect the SC

[HermanDune]

SC requires some long forms to be filled in with various details including things about your parents which can be tricky to obtain if they're no longer alive to ask, DV takes a lot more and involves interviews and questions to all sorts of your past contacts.

I filled in the form asking for all details of parents, partners, last 5 year addresses and last three years of references.

You are correct in that I do currently have BC. It means I cannot go into the office next door. I might be able to pass notes through their letterbox.

[malvolio]

I've just been put through SC clearance by current client. Very nice of them too as I'll probably never actually work for their client who requires it!

All I've had so far is an email from someone internal stating that it's come through and I'm cleared to work on the account - and the expiry date of the clearance.

I've asked for more info from them, because I figured there must be a reference number or certificate or something. The lady is going to find out if there's anything they will send me, but she said all they get is an email saying who's been cleared!

I'm guessing it's probably "myclientco's client", rather than myclientco who are actually putting us through the clearance and that's why she's not got any info.

What should I expect to get to confirm the sc clearance? Job security here isn't high (even though my contract runs until December, recent cut backs have seen 4 contractors ditched in recent weeks) and I would like to be able to show something if they give me the boot early.

It dies one year after you last needed to use it. During that year it can be turned back on quite easily, after that, you go through the mill all over again...

Anyway there is a reference held by the site SSO; if you're really lucky you can use that to speed up your next clearance, if you can get hold of it (the reference is itself a classified document, hence not accessible to uncleared people, so you may not be allowed to see it. Paranoia is a way of life at this level...). In my experience it depends if the SSO is ex-military, or post-holding Civvy; guess which is the more rule-bound.

Incidentally, I once went from commercial SC (private company with MoD contracts for supply of electronics) to real MOD job (build a Helpdesk...): they re-vetted me since the MOD didn't trust the commercial company's clearance. The same thing can happen between vetting agencies as well apparently.

[ruth11]

I've just been put through SC clearance by current client. Very nice of them too as I'll probably never actually work for their client who requires it!

All I've had so far is an email from someone internal stating that it's come through and I'm cleared to work on the account - and the expiry date of the clearance.

I've asked for more info from them, because I figured there must be a reference number or certificate or something. The lady is going to find out if there's anything they will send me, but she said all they get is an email saying who's been cleared!

I'm guessing it's probably "myclientco's client", rather than myclientco who are actually putting us through the clearance and that's why she's not got any info.

What should I expect to get to confirm the sc clearance? Job security here isn't high (even though my contract runs until December, recent cut backs have seen 4 contractors ditched in recent weeks) and I would like to be able to show something if they give me the boot early.

[TykeMerc]

I got sponsored by the recruitment agency I think. They put forward for the job without asking about my SC status. I had it for 7 years between 1999 and 2006.

It only took a week to come through.

That's BC clearance by the way, not SC as SC has never taken 1 week, but BC usually takes that long as it's just a glorified ID check.

SC requires a List A or List X company or a Ministry sponsor to put you forwards, you can't apply for it personally or via MyCo.

8-12 weeks is about average for SC to come through this year and these days all clearances are done by one agency and not the inidivual ministries as it used to be. The approx cost to the sponsor is £400.
DV typically takes 6-9 months.

SC requires some long forms to be filled in with various details including things about your parents which can be tricky to obtain if they're no longer alive to ask, DV takes a lot more and involves interviews and questions to all sorts of your past contacts.

[brianbetter]

Blame the clients not the agents!

Answer from a pimp who deals with cleared contractors.

The Sponsorship can only be requested by a company that holds what is called ListX status. In order to obtain this, the company has to prove that they are holding sensitive / secret material and that they are capable of holding it in the correct safe , secure environment and that this material is for ongoing work and is pertinant to the holding companies business ( i.e. you can't just request to be given some secret documents to keep them locked in a safe so you can get ListX status) .As this is the case, very few agencies hold ListX status, rather they get their clients to act as sponsor and the agency will handle the paperwork for their client to help speed up the process. Once paperwork is done, the agency will submit to that company pass office where it will be matched with a sponsor form from the appropriate person within the comapny (normally the manager requesting the contractor). This is all then sent to the DVA to be processed.
The fact that the agency needs to use the client to get clearance is normally where it all falls down.
Most demand for contractors is reactive rather than proactive (i.e. a lot of work appearing or staff people leaving) and as such the client instructs the agency that they need people a.s.a.p to fulfil the role. As an agency, we have no choice other than to try and find already cleared people as (and this happens a lot) the client will interview a contractor, start the clearance procedure for them but will then abandon them if someone with clearance comes on the scene. As an agency, this is obviously a huge waste of our time so, as the client demands it of us, we have to try and find SC cleared people.
If there is a large scale project and the client is actually organised, we do try and educate them that finding and clearing people is actually a lot better (i.e. they get fresh workers with non of the mentality of existing staff , you do not get cleared people using clearance to drive price up in line with supply / demand rules) and if this is the case, as an agency, we do go to the marketplace totry and find the BEST people and not just cleared, available people.

I hope this answers some questions about why agencies are driven to source people with existing clearances, it is not through ignorance, lack of knowledge or laziness, it is what we have to do to service the (sometimes frankly ludicrous) demands of our clients.

P.S. If there any any SC cleared P3e Planners, we would love to hear from you!

[HermanDune]

I got sponsored by the recruitment agency I think. They put forward for the job without asking about my SC status. I had it for 7 years between 1999 and 2006.

It only took a week to come through.

[pmeswani]

I've seen a few SC clearance contracts I could go for - if I had SC clearance. I've also seen good BC clearance contracts, which (although it only takes a week or so to sort out) I've been put off applying by the wording in the ad.

Has anyone here actually been successful in getting these sort of contracts without already having SC clearance ?

My understanding is that you need sponsorship (ie. existing client) and it takes months to sort out, in which case the contract will have been nabbed by someone who already has it - or rather that the agent chooses them over the others because they get their money earlier.

I had applied for a job that required SC clearance. I managed to get the job and my SC vetting was processed. Took about 6 - 12 weeks to complete. In order to obtain SC clearance, you need someone to sponsor you. You cannot apply for SC clearance without the sponsorship. And sponsorship is normally acquired by gaining employment with a company that provides a service to a company that is at a SC level.

[RichardCranium]

All,

I am SC cleared, i got it through being in the mob at one point in my life.

Blimey. They'll let anyone in now.

[exmob]

Security Clearance

All,

I am SC cleared, i got it through being in the mob at one point in my life. I was recleared by a company some time ago as my role required it. I will say this, the SC system is not a democratic system, and it is not a right no matter who you are or where you where born.
Currently it is taking alot longer than it used to to get cleared due to the massive amount of applicants that are being received to cover all the work out there, proof positive that you are not discriminated against if you don't have SC, most of the big fish are willing to clear you if the time frame for the role allows, whereas it used to take 3 / weeks it can now take 6 months. Crazy as you would think that they would employ more people to clear others, the snag they need to be cleared to do the clearing lol, hey well as knife crime goes up we dont get more police on the streets do we lol!
If you have nothing to hide in your past then you will get clearance eventually you just generally have to be in the right place at the right time! Good luck :-)

[ratewhore]

Look on the bright side - if you don't have it you can't work on the big govt contracts - which in general are ******* sh1t contracts to be on...

[expat]

In the real world though, if you haven't got it, forget it. HMG are reduced to having the pick of 5% of the available resource. I wonder if they'll ever notice...

Notice what? They've said it shouldn't happen, so it's sorted.

Geez, I hope the actual defence of the country is more reality-oriented.

[malvolio]

Found this to answer my own question...

http://www.contractoruk.com/002675.html

Isn't the CUK website fantastic...

Shame he's wrong. It's the agencies who are usually the roadblock. He's in cloud cuckoo land, sadly. Damnit, I have current SC clearance until 2009, and will merely need to resubmit the vetting form if I get a new role (and all the previous answers still apply!), and I can't get put forward for anything.

The Catch-22 shouldn't exist by HMG's own rules, else they could never take on new staff. There are always going to be some roles where clearance is needed up front (sysadmin, DBA and on-site support spring to mind), but that does not include programming, development in general or most of the management disciplines and there are ways to manage uncleared staff on cleared sites.

In the real world though, if you haven't got it, forget it. HMG are reduced to having the pick of 5% of the available resource. I wonder if they'll ever notice...

BTW, in the worst case SC will take 6 weeks, mostly it's 3-4, but they have to be fairly sure you aren't open to blackmail, coercion or subversion. BC is a week or so, CTC a shade more - but they're only concerned with proving who you are.