Both Outside IR35 and Inside IR35?

[gabedima]

Hi,
I have a contract with a client that made the due-diligence and proposed me an Outside IR35 contract.
In the contract it is stated that the services should be performed by myself " or another resource with similar skills."

My company has a subcontracting contract with another company which signed an NDA with my Client.
Q1: Would this be an implicit relation that falls under the statement in my contract that the services can be performed by " another resource with similar skills."?

Q2. Can I have another contract at the same time with another Client but this time with a contract that is Inside IR35?

Q3: Can I have another contract at the same time with another Client with another Outside IR35 contract with me as a resource to deliver the services?

Thank you all for answering my two questions above.

[jamesbrown]

We cannot answer any of those questions because it depends on precisely what your contract says and also what the client thinks it says and also what the client thinks, regardless of what it says.

But there's no statute that prevents you working simultaneously for N=P+Q clients of which P contracts are outside and Q are inside, if that's what you're asking. The rest depends on the contract(s) and client(s) and whether you can perform the work.

[northernladuk]

Hi,
I have a contract with a client that made the due-diligence and proposed me an Outside IR35 contract.
In the contract it is stated that the services should be performed by myself " or another resource with similar skills."

You are already working on this contract? The client has issued an SDS and you are passed first invoice/payment cycle?

Or you have a contract ready to sign?

My company has a subcontracting contract with another company which signed an NDA with my Client.
Q1: Would this be an implicit relation that falls under the statement in my contract that the services can be performed by " another resource with similar skills."?

I'd say no. That statement to me reads more as substitution rather using another entity. I'd read that as resource from your company, not another company. You need to be very clear with what is substitution or subcontracting. Maybe pedantic but it's key to the engagement. They maybe happy with one and not so the other, particularly if the agreement with the other company doesn't meet their expectations (i.e. the subcontractor is already working full time with the other) so need to nail it down tight. Fudging it and not telling the client isn't the way in my opinion. If you have open season to negotiate you have the opportunity to do it all above board. Something about this post tells me that's not what you are looking for though.

Q2. Can I have another contract at the same time with another Client but this time with a contract that is Inside IR35?

Depends on what the wording of both contracts are and the working arrangement is. At a guess the inside gig will be for 8 hours a day 5 days a week. That would technically mean no as you'll be fully committed to that.
So you need to be very clear with the engagement and delivery of the first piece of work and suss out how much time you are expect to spend on it. You can then use that free time to do other work as long as it meets the expectation of the second contract. The interesting point we've not seen before is that is with the same client so you really can't be using the fact you are working from home to fudge the two. The client will see both sides so you need to get it all agreed.

Q3: Can I have another contract at the same time with another Client with another Outside IR35 contract with me as a resource to deliver the services?k

It is possible yes but again is highly dependant on how you are delivering and how much time each gig needs allocating. If you are expected to do 2.5 days on the first contract and the second one stipulates a full 5 days in working time then no you can't as the only way you can manage the time is to do work on the other clients time.

If both contracts are based on deliverables and don't mention time then yes you can. The client isn't expecting 8 hours so you have the freedom to prioritize the work and if one needs less time you switch to the other. Fill your boots. If you've got those two on that agreement and you have the time you can have a third if it's still possible to deliver everything on time and not have calendar clashes you have to lie to avoid etc.

The third option is just to pull the wool over both clients eyes, bill them both yet only do half the work for both of them which to many of us here is just a piss take and is a no no.

One or two posters are going to jump on and say the above is hogwash and you can deliver what you want regardless of the clients expectations and double bill away. IMO (and others) that isn't the right way. It is dependant on the contract and the expectation from the client. Two contracts requiring 8 hours a day is only possible by being remote from the client and working on each others time aka taking the piss. Two contracts with a delivery approach where you are free to spend (and bill) whatever time is worked then fill your boots.

Take a long hard look at each piece of work, see what is in the contract and what the client expects from each and then see if they can be worked in parallel.

Now it's GreenBastards turn to respond.

[porrker]

As already stated will depend on clauses that specify working times and locations. I am also seeing exclusivity clauses in inside contracts. The outside contracts normally state explicitly this is not an exclusive contract.

[northernladuk]

As already stated will depend on clauses that specify working times and locations. I am also seeing exclusivity clauses in inside contracts. The outside contracts normally state explicitly this is not an exclusive contract.

They do but I tend to find this is a line item in a generic IR35 friendly contract. The strange thing is that even though this is in the contract it does tend to specify something around working times putting the two at odds with each other. Anything from an all encompassing 9-5 Mon to Friday through 8 hours per day down to a generic 40 hrs per week can be in the contract. So many contracts state it's not exclusive but then put other clauses in that make it difficult for it not to be exclusive. I do believe in most cases this is like substitution clauses, it's in there to be IR35 friendly but in no way reflects the working practices or clients expectation.

If you are considering, or are, a multi-gig'er I think it's important to highlight the problem between a non-exclusivity clause and tight working times to give you the proper freedom to multi gig. I don't think, unlike some, that every contract is free reign to multi gig just because you think you can. The expectations of the client are often not met in those cases. Negotiate the times out and agree that the lack of exclusivity is with the client expects and not just a sham clause and you are golden.