Potential merits of a change of agency to the risk of IR35 investigation...

[aligning2020]

Thanks. So in summary - HMRC can probably get whatever details they want. Intermediary report is simply a part of that. With that in mind if you've been contracting via a PSC then you need to continue to be mindful that there is risk that an IR35 investigation will be opened on you, and there isn't any quantifiable way of reducing that risk moving forwards?

Or am I missing something here - and current contract finishing and ending at a clientco because the role has moved to another country, changing agency, and taking a brand new (albeit similar deliverables) in another department in clientco impacts the risk of a). being investigated for historical IR35? and/or b). IR35 investigation determining that was historically operating within IR35?

If I'm not missing something - then the only useful efforts are to continue to ensure contracts and working practices are outside of IR35, all evidence is collated and kept to support this, insurances are in place and valid or funds available to fight an investigation, should an investigation be opened on you?

Thanks

[BR14]

probably

[CanPayButWouldRatherNot]

...helping out a follow newbie before the forum barbarians drop in...

Google 'intermediary report'. Speculation is that if HMRC are looking for targets they will use this report. Interestingly, the report does not include any data on the end client, only you and the agency.

Hence eek's comment that changing agency with same client will help keep you clear of the Eye, as they will just see you moving between 'roles'. No red flags. Staying at same agency moving from outside to inside - red flag, as perhaps you were actually inside all along...

If the Eye does see you then whatever position you are in right now is the best you're gonna get. It's already too late to improve the situation. You can make it worse tho by helping HMRC suspect that you might actually be inside right now (e.g. by going permie/inside doing the same job). Don't do that.

They didn't do many people over the last 20 years for IR35, but that's no guarantee that they won't feel compelled to 'prove' that IR35 did meet the revenue targets after all, and go after... YOU!

Lastly, all of the above and most of what you read on this forum is speculation. Nobody actually knows. What you decide to do is largely down to your appetite for risk.

thanks for this ..

but what if you cut the "intermediary report" out of the equation by taking up a permie job with clientco (so no continuation with an agency) ... ?

[eek]

thanks for this ..

but what if you cut the "intermediary report" out of the equation by taking up a permie job with clientco (so no continuation with an agency) ... ?

There is a risk - those risks are different...

[aligning2020]

Does current contract finishing and ending at a clientco because the role has moved to another country, changing agency, and taking a brand new role (albeit similar deliverables) in another department in clientco constitute to a "role change" then? And therefore reduce risk of a retrospective IR35 investigation and/or chances of HMRC success if such an investigation takes place? Thanks

[northernladuk]

Does current contract finishing and ending at a clientco because the role has moved to another country, changing agency, and taking a brand new role (albeit similar deliverables) in another department in clientco constitute to a "role change" then? And therefore reduce risk of a retrospective IR35 investigation and/or chances of HMRC success if such an investigation takes place? Thanks

How about you apply some logic, research and common sense and tell us what you think first rather than just asking random questions.
You've managed to lump all the standard questions in to one paragraph without spending a second to consider any of them. Quite impressive really.

[aligning2020]

Thanks for the kudos. I'd have to disagree on the level of consideration given though. I've considered it very carefully and don't have clarity. Plus searched the forums to see if this has been discussed before using your suggested method; genuine thanks for that. It hasn't been from what I can see. Happy to be proven otherwise. So to be concise, I'm interested in view on:

1. What actually does and doesn't constitute to a "role change"?
2. Where there is a role change what are views on the impact to risk to retrospective IR35 investigation and IR35 investigation result?

Suspect there could be multiple people potentially going down that route, so worthy of discussion for the greater good.

[northernladuk]

1. What actually does and doesn't constitute to a "role change"?

Where the new one doesn't look like it's the same as the old one.

2. Where there is a role change what are views on the impact to risk to retrospective IR35 investigation and IR35 investigation result?

It would very much depend on the answer to 1 and the situation around the change. And even if we had the details we don't know. This one is discussed endlessly as it's a pretty basic question.

So there is nothing new or unique to your questions and much of the detail is discussed in most 'what about my situation/idea' threads.

[aligning2020]

Where the new one doesn't look like it's the same as the old one.

So there is a very clear and consistent view from everyone on here with regards to what attributes of roles would be compared by HMRC, if they looked at comparing two of them during an investigation?

It would very much depend on the answer to 1 and the situation around the change. And even if we had the details we don't know. This one is discussed endlessly as it's a pretty basic question.

Endlessly. Really? Literally doesn't appear to have been discussed anywhere at all on here to me.

[northernladuk]

So there is a very clear and consistent view from everyone on here with regards to what attributes of roles would be compared by HMRC, if they looked at comparing two of them during an investigation?

No because it hasn't happened yet has it :
Gotta use a bit off common here I am afraid. I know it's tough. Sorry.

Endlessly. Really? Literally doesn't appear to have been discussed anywhere at all on here to me.

The levels of risks, why, possible outcomes and so on have and it should be enough to give you a chance to have at least an educated guess at the outcome. You should know what will attract HMRC and the risks faced. We cannot answer every single scenario over and over because at the end we just don't know.

But tip for you. Use the Google search and use a term like 'different role'