Thinking of leaving IT over IR35?

[BR14]

That's how you get pushed into submission. Continuous pressure, little hints thrown out into the conversation telling you: "You are not good enough" "Work harder" You know you are one of the best around but rubbish, it's not enough. The person there wants all he can get.
Continuous meetings about "doing the right thing", you are expected to embrace all these joyful ideas and buzz words and play around with them and mingle with the rest of the herd. Don't forget about the team buildings where you are studied and even further brainwashed. It is mandatory as well to go. Don't dare saying a word that can be interpreted another way and that undermines their "culture" because you'll quickly be put to your place, you ungrateful worker.
Let's not forget everything is about culture nowadays, they are all so proud of it, I get nauseous even hearing the word. It's a bacterial culture that is what it is.
You get pushed and pushed until one point where you don't see any other option, you've had enough of the tulip show, you are tired, so you succumb into the idea and become another brainless permi.
Don't even get me started in the office politics.

that's the best rant i've seen this year!

possibly deranged, but......................

hey

[GigiBronz]

Wowsers.

Someone's got issues.

You ok hun?

Good, thanks for asking. Usual me. Corporate life is just a subject that I am very passionate about.

that's the best rant i've seen this year!

possibly deranged, but......................

hey

Takes one to know one.

Anyway, for anyone looking for a weekend read before jumping into the hamster wheel on Monday, there is:
Bulltulip Jobs by David Graeber

[nomadd]

Corporate life is just a subject that I am very passionate about.

Then don't work for a large corporate. Some of the best projects I've ever had have been with smaller clients.

[northernladuk]

Good, thanks for asking. Usual me. Corporate life is just a subject that I am very passionate about.

Become a teacher or lecturer then. You know how the saying goes....

[GigiBronz]

Then don't work for a large corporate. Some of the best projects I've ever had have been with smaller clients.

Start-ups just take the mickey with their 70-80k offers that end up being a good portion of shares(that might not be worth much), pension(37y left until pension age, with these uncertain times I see no point in investing in one for now) and insurances. You get stuck with a 3m notice and at any point during the gig they might end up insolvent.
It involves also talking a lot about beard oil...
Went for an interview few months back with one, they kept the interview in a room just outside of the office, probably not to see the faces of the poor people inside. The CFO was quite braggy about the funds and what they are. At the same time I could see the face of the lead engineer near by changing at every line. Quite a bit of frustration in there.
They also applied for insolvency few months prior to that than discontinued it. After a bit they went for the whiteboard exercise but they've lost my interest by that point.
Been through a consultancy at some point in the past, they weren't paying great so struggling to find people. Would have gone for that as you are not stuck to a place, good business connections. But they are able to sponsor nowadays so everyone that I've seen going through them are with a visa. I'd be surprised if they'd take someone that comes with no strings attached.
I can keep an open mind but so far nothing exciting.

Become a teacher or lecturer then. You know how the saying goes....

They say the biggest egos hide in there, I might sound like one after all these posts but not that much in reality.

Sorry for taking over this thread, I'll let other people say what is on their mind.
In difficult times people might forget all their experiences and be tempted to compromise too much. We should at least put a good fight, say openly what we want and maybe it will turn our way. Otherwise we just allow the sleezy agents push us around, and corporate machine whip us into a place where they have more control over us.
There is a book I've seen people here mention also: Death March by Edward Yourdon where the tech project environment is quite well portrayed and for which in my opinion the permi route is not well suited.

[SussexSeagull]

My problem with permanent employment is you can't just be good at your job. I found technical skills weren't respected in terms of salary and if you were good at something you were stuck doing it and the only way to grow was to change jobs.

[ladymuck]

My problem with permanent employment is you can't just be good at your job. I found technical skills weren't respected in terms of salary and if you were good at something you were stuck doing it and the only way to grow was to change jobs.

Or you get people very good at something but the only way to reward them is to promote them to management. Not everyone is management material so you end up with a brilliant worker taken out of the role they're good at, and hopefully enjoys, and puts them in an environment where they can only fail.

[cojak]

Or they don’t want to be management so they go the technical specialist route. Then the company decides that technical specialists are too expensive so they make them redundant and bring in consultancies.

And then suddenly realise that they have 4000 too many at manager level and how the feck do they lean out people who are natural survivors?


And let’s not forget the years of IP that gets blown away in the wind...

*cough*Rolls-Royce*cough*

[TwoWolves]

But this is a silly thing to say. We are quite happy doing it as disguised permies at the same client for crap loads of money. You'd be doing the same work for the same clients except they would be your employer and it would be through a contract of employment.

Diss'ing permies roles on that reasoning is just daft. Talking about the endless reviews, lack of money and holidays etc maybe, but the environments they have that we already working seems odd.

Not really true.

Even at the most close-to-perm gigs I've done in the distant past I didn't ask for leave; I told them I would be unavailable. Didn't have to attend "team building" or suck-up to tosser management and renewals were not begging for a rise but threatening to walk.

[smatty]

Defecting after 16 years contracting, was going to take time off but spotted an ideal role in a financial organisation (new for me, handy on CV) that pays about the same as my previous rate inside IR35 (more if the client expected me to absorb the NI cost).

Nearly went for a consultancy but have a young family and working partner so needed more flexibility. Can see why you liked it though cojak, find one with interesting clients and looked really good.

Will have another look when dust settles.