outside IR35 before..inside after?

[JohntheBike]

Yes. You'll be employed by the brolly so IR35 not a factor.

so do we know more now about those in the public sector who were forced to accept this? i.e. apart from the reduction in nett as a result of direct taxation, have brollies reduced the gross to compensate for providing employee benefits? Or are employee benefits not offered or not accepted by contractors, in order to maintain their gross rate?

[malvolio]

so do we know more now about those in the public sector who were forced to accept this? i.e. apart from the reduction in nett as a result of direct taxation, have brollies reduced the gross to compensate for providing employee benefits? Or are employee benefits not offered or not accepted by contractors, in order to maintain their gross rate?

Umbrellas haven't changed for many years. They take the agreed rate to the contractor and pay it to them net of taxes and both NICs, after retaining a portion for holiday pay and pensions (as per normal rules for employees).

Post April, they should be adding the Employer NIC and Apprentice Levy costs to the agreed rate since it won't be the worker's liability. What that will do to your rate is, of course, up for discussion, but don't expect it to stay the same.

And be aware that some are advertising rates at one level which mysteriously turn into a lower "engagement rate" once you've signed the contract, the difference being, oddly enough, roughly the same as the EENICs and AL costs...

[JohntheBike]

Umbrellas haven't changed for many years. They take the agreed rate to the contractor and pay it to them net of taxes and both NICs, after retaining a portion for holiday pay and pensions (as per normal rules for employees).

Post April, they should be adding the Employer NIC and Apprentice Levy costs to the agreed rate since it won't be the worker's liability. What that will do to your rate is, of course, up for discussion, but don't expect it to stay the same.

And be aware that some are advertising rates at one level which mysteriously turn into a lower "engagement rate" once you've signed the contract, the difference being, oddly enough, roughly the same as the EENICs and AL costs...

after retaining a portion for holiday pay and pensions

so in effect the individual is still paying for some of the employee benefits that a bona fide employee wouldn't. What happens about sick pay?

[northernladuk]

so in effect the individual is still paying for some of the employee benefits that a bona fide employee wouldn't. What happens about sick pay?

But employees do pay for their benefits.

Many years ago CSC went for full flex benefits. They gave a gross amount with no benefits and a catalogue of stuff to buy. This gross figure didn't include holidays, pensions or anything. People were ecstatic to find out their pay doubled, but when they added the basics like holidays, pension, health care it came back to the original figure and they were dismayed. Right mess it was.

It's just a way of thinking about it.

[malvolio]

so in effect the individual is still paying for some of the employee benefits that a bona fide employee wouldn't.

You're catching on at last...

What happens about sick pay?

What sick pay? You're sick, you don't work. You don't work, you don't get paid.

[JohntheBike]

You're catching on at last...
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What sick pay? You're sick, you don't work. You don't work, you don't get paid.

so working for an umbrella doesn't mean you are entitled to all the normal employment benefits that you might enjoy if you are an employee working in the public sector. So in effect, you are not an employee of the umbrella.

[JohntheBike]

But employees do pay for their benefits.

Many years ago CSC went for full flex benefits. They gave a gross amount with no benefits and a catalogue of stuff to buy. This gross figure didn't include holidays, pensions or anything. People were ecstatic to find out their pay doubled, but when they added the basics like holidays, pension, health care it came back to the original figure and they were dismayed. Right mess it was.

It's just a way of thinking about it.

I was a contractor working for CSC in 2005. So when did this happen?

[northernladuk]

so working for an umbrella doesn't mean you are entitled to all the normal employment benefits that you might enjoy if you are an employee working in the public sector. So in effect, you are not an employee of the umbrella.

It's not a comparison of benefits. The umbrella model is usually the bare bones as a go between. They don't intend on winning andly best employer awards. If you want that you go perm.

[northernladuk]

I was a contractor working for CSC in 2005. So when did this happen?

I'd have to check my CV but definitely before that. It was called flex benefits I believe and quickly got canned.

[JohntheBike]

I'd have to check my CV but definitely before that. It was called flex benefits I believe and quickly got canned.

I guess being a contractor, I wouldn't have been exposed to any of the conversations on it.