IR35 - the end of a flexible workforce

[JohntheBike]

I have been expecting this for years. Many posters on CUK seem to think its a good thing. They are "real" contractors - its clearing the rest who are "fakes".

there are no "fakes" as you put it, only workers who do not receive employment benefits, whom HMRC wish to tax as employees, who do receive employment benefits, which are not taxed.

[BrilloPad]

there are no "fakes" as you put it, only workers who do not receive employment benefits, whom HMRC wish to tax as employees, who do receive employment benefits, which are not taxed.

Indeed!

HMRC think otherwise - and everyone needs to stand against them.

[coder]

Hi

I think the opposite is true. It's the beginning of flexible work for all.

The implementation of the private sector ir35 changes mean that end clients can treat you as a permie resource. The implication then becomes why bother having permie staff? Just recruit thru umbrellas on fixed term and save on pension, sickness

[JohntheBike]

Indeed!

HMRC think otherwise - and everyone needs to stand against them.

everyone needs to stand against them

I've done a bit and am prepared to do more if I'm forced to.

[Rebel]

I have been expecting this for years. Many posters on CUK seem to think its a good thing. They are "real" contractors - its clearing the rest who are "fakes".

Yes I can understand that this can make way for the “real” contractors, but that doesn’t help when companies will end up making blanket decisions.

Yes if the clients improve in how they deal with contractors this could work well. But if they simply think what’s the point it’s too much risk then it messes up the whole contractor route.

[Rebel]

Hi

I think the opposite is true. It's the beginning of flexible work for all.

The implementation of the private sector ir35 changes mean that end clients can treat you as a permie resource. The implication then becomes why bother having permie staff? Just recruit thru umbrellas on fixed term and save on pension, sickness

Interesting way of looking at it. And actually you’re right clients can simply take on everyone via PAYE and don’t have to pay pension, sickness etc. Wow that’s a flaw.

[eek]

Interesting way of looking at it. And actually you’re right clients can simply take on everyone via PAYE and don’t have to pay pension, sickness etc. Wow that’s a flaw.

Taken to it's logical conclusion it allows low paid workers to be paid PAYE for whatever income they earn.

10 hours driving an Uber
7 hours cycling on Deliveroo
8 hours in Tescos

All paid to an umbrella firm who then pay you via PAYE. HMRC will love it.

[Amanensia]

Interesting way of looking at it. And actually you’re right clients can simply take on everyone via PAYE and don’t have to pay pension, sickness etc. Wow that’s a flaw.

Not really. The legal minimum of pensions, sickness etc is of fairly limited cost. Many employers choose to pay more (a lot more) as it's something that employees value, so it matters for recruitment and retention. It'd take a brave "big company" to be the first to throw all that away.

Might be more of an issue for minimum-wage-type jobs - but we've been in a race to the bottom for those jobs for a while. Not sure companies can pay much less than they do already even via Umbrellas!

[BoredBloke]

Hi

I think the opposite is true. It's the beginning of flexible work for all.

The implementation of the private sector ir35 changes mean that end clients can treat you as a permie resource. The implication then becomes why bother having permie staff? Just recruit thru umbrellas on fixed term and save on pension, sickness

Totally agree. But it's even better for the company. One amount to pay that includes NI, Salary, PAYE and employers NI to the brolly and with the advantage of not having to worry about the job perks you mentioned like holiday pay etc. Everybody is on a short notice period and can be let go at the drop of a hat and with none of those annoying employee protections or redundancy to worry about. Why would any company employ permies when the umbrella route gives permie like control but contractor like flexibility. You can also trim down your HR needs also....all you need is an excel spreadsheet showing the day rates going forward

[Amanensia]

Why would any company employ permies when the umbrella route gives permie like control but contractor like flexibility.

To get decent staff.