IR35 Retrospective Tax Claims

[cojak]

I think you are a little naive if you believe anything that HMRC tells you.

Well I wasn't naïve enough to believe the snake-oil 'compliancy' of the Scheme promoters, and I'm not daft enough to trust HMRC.

(Or should that be the other way around?)

[northernladuk]

I think you are a little naive if you believe anything that HMRC tells you.

Anyone else's nutsack shrivel up and disappear in to their body when JTB called Cojak naive?

<shiver>

[northernladuk]

If you really are close to retirement ( and to 55, and have enough off a wad to live off ) then start paying £40K into a SIPP. It'll take that chunk out of any potential NI clawback and you can access it from 55. Depending what you are earning you can really limit your NI liability. You could wrap up your Ltd and work through a umbrella if you get your taxable income down low enough.

If you go via an umbrella like Contractor Umbrella which will allow unlimited contributions to their SIPP (up to the maximum of course) then you should pay very little tax. Going inside but using the tax breaks of the SIPP might actually make it worth staying.

[JohntheBike]

Well I wasn't naïve enough to believe the snake-oil 'compliancy' of the Scheme promoters, and I'm not daft enough to trust HMRC.

(Or should that be the other way around?)

Good on you. I've never done or claimed anything which HMRC might challenge and catch me out on, including IR35 related issues. However, I've always stood my ground when challenged, or should I say bullied, by HMRC. There was one issue where I bough a new Mondeo using my personal discount and sold it to MyCo, clearly at a profit, for use as my company car. HMRC didn't like this and wanted to see how much I'd paid for it in relation to how much I'd charged MyCo. I refused, on the basis that it was none of their business. They gave up in the end. My weapons are sharp and my defences are strong when it comes to HMRC.

[jk3838]

If you go via an umbrella like Contractor Umbrella which will allow unlimited contributions to their SIPP (up to the maximum of course) then you should pay very little tax. Going inside but using the tax breaks of the SIPP might actually make it worth staying.

when you say 'might be worth staying', I take it you mean, stay contracting for a bit longer ? not staying in current gig ?

I'm thinking best approach is perhaps to take a few '3 or 4 month' gigs over the next 18 months before I call it a day (whilst building up pension)?

Can't the risk of 'them' looking at this 'longer than I'm happy with' gig, despite the 'being outside' proof I have, and if things went the wrong way (which they sometimes can) it would mean I'd have to do at least another 5 yrs plus to get back where I am today war chest wise

So another point I raised was should I shut the company now, in March, in 18 months, in a few years for best protection against them going back into the last few years Will it help or will that flag up and make a 'look at' more likely ?

Thanks again for all your responses

[JohntheBike]

when you say 'might be worth staying', I take it you mean, stay contracting for a bit longer ? not staying in current gig ?

I'm thinking best approach is perhaps to take a few '3 or 4 month' gigs over the next 18 months before I call it a day (whilst building up pension)?

Can't the risk of 'them' looking at this 'longer than I'm happy with' gig, despite the 'being outside' proof I have, and if things went the wrong way (which they sometimes can) it would mean I'd have to do at least another 5 yrs plus to get back where I am today war chest wise

So another point I raised was should I shut the company now, in March, in 18 months, in a few years for best protection against them going back into the last few years Will it help or will that flag up and make a 'look at' more likely ?

Thanks again for all your responses

Note that some here have indicated that any payments made after 04/04/2020, even if they refer to work done previously to that, will be taxed at source, if that contract is deemed to be caught by the new rules.

[northernladuk]

when you say 'might be worth staying', I take it you mean, stay contracting for a bit longer ? not staying in current gig ?

I'm thinking best approach is perhaps to take a few '3 or 4 month' gigs over the next 18 months before I call it a day (whilst building up pension)?

Can't the risk of 'them' looking at this 'longer than I'm happy with' gig, despite the 'being outside' proof I have, and if things went the wrong way (which they sometimes can) it would mean I'd have to do at least another 5 yrs plus to get back where I am today war chest wise

I mean staying in that gig inside. Most people won't stay because of the drop in income but if you are OK to funnel it in to the SIPP the tax savings should make it worth staying.

If you've got an outside gig now I don't think the client incorrectly putting you inside should be a problem. You are as likely to get investigated now as you are later so you aren't really dodging anything by leaving IMO.

How many years have you been there by the way? That would give us a much better idea of the risk you think you are facing.

So another point I raised was should I shut the company now, in March, in 18 months, in a few years for best protection against them going back into the last few years Will it help or will that flag up and make a 'look at' more likely ?

Thanks again for all your responses

You are more likely to put yourself at risk doing that because they'll look at the company before it closes so don't see what doing that would achieve. They can re-open companies to investigate although I don't think this has ever happened. As I said before though, you are just throwing knee jerk ideas in before we've a clue what is going on so you are just guessing and we can't really help as we just don't know.

[jk3838]

I mean staying in that gig inside.

oh ok, I thought going 'outside' to client determined 'inside' was a 'no no' as it's that which gives the HMRC 'proof' it was always an 'inside' gig ?

How many years have you been there by the way?

<wincing as I write this> erm more than a few years (not double figures like some here), but in different contracts with different titles but through the same agent, and for the same client <puts helmet on> but in my defence I have had two of us in here on and off in the past, have got a substitute clause in contract and used it, current contract has been running a few months, and does pass qdos compliance for 'outside', previous contract also compliant

I know I should've moved on to be better protected, but this is such a great gig, and sometimes it's hard to take something worse, for far less wonger, and having to stay away etc also in the engineering world, if you move on every few months you soon get a reputation for not seeing the project through, and those that do it only ever come here once, (yet the company isn't interested in offering permie tractors permie roles), and there aren't that many companies interested in my main skill set

I know staying has come at a price now

Can't turn the clock back, just want to minimize risk (if possible) now going forward

As I said before though, you are just throwing knee jerk ideas in before we've a clue what is going on so you are just guessing and we can't really help as we just don't know.

yes I know there are a lot of unknowns, I'm just trying to be proactive and get a 'best strategy' together and need advice to do that from those who know more than I

Again reducing risk of them looking back is more of a priority than how to carry on working looking forward although one is related to how I go about the other

[jk3838]

I mean staying in that gig inside.

oh ok, I thought going 'outside' to client determined 'inside' was a 'no no' as it's that which gives the HMRC 'proof' it was always an 'inside' gig ?

The new contract isn't really the problem maxm.

The problem is that HMRC will see you sitting in the same seat, doing the same things and ask "if he's inside now, why wasn't he inside then?"

That's why moving to a new PS client is safer - it is a different client, with a different contract and different working practices.

Different working practices is the important bit.

How many years have you been there by the way?

<wincing as I write this> erm more than a few years (not double figures like some here), but in different contracts with different titles but through the same agent, and for the same client <puts helmet on> but in my defence I have had two of us in here on and off in the past, have got a substitute clause in contract and used it, current contract has been running a few months, and does pass qdos compliance for 'outside', previous contract also compliant

I know I should've moved on to be better protected, but this is such a great gig, and sometimes it's hard to take something worse, for far less wonger, and having to stay away etc also in the engineering world, if you move on every few months you soon get a reputation for not seeing the project through, and those that do it only ever come here once, (yet the company isn't interested in offering permie tractors permie roles), and there aren't that many companies interested in my main skill set

I know staying has come at a price now

Can't turn the clock back, just want to minimize risk (if possible) now going forward

As I said before though, you are just throwing knee jerk ideas in before we've a clue what is going on so you are just guessing and we can't really help as we just don't know.

yes I know there are a lot of unknowns, I'm just trying to be proactive and get a 'best strategy' together and need advice to do that from those who know more than I

Again reducing risk of them looking back is more of a priority than how to carry on working looking forward although one is related to how I go about the other

[JohntheBike]

oh ok, I thought going 'outside' to client determined 'inside' was a 'no no' as it's that which gives the HMRC 'proof' it was always an 'inside' gig ?







<wincing as I write this> erm more than a few years (not double figures like some here), but in different contracts with different titles but through the same agent, and for the same client <puts helmet on> but in my defence I have had two of us in here on and off in the past, have got a substitute clause in contract and used it, current contract has been running a few months, and does pass qdos compliance for 'outside', previous contract also compliant

I know I should've moved on to be better protected, but this is such a great gig, and sometimes it's hard to take something worse, for far less wonger, and having to stay away etc also in the engineering world, if you move on every few months you soon get a reputation for not seeing the project through, and those that do it only ever come here once, (yet the company isn't interested in offering permie tractors permie roles), and there aren't that many companies interested in my main skill set

I know staying has come at a price now

Can't turn the clock back, just want to minimize risk (if possible) now going forward



yes I know there are a lot of unknowns, I'm just trying to be proactive and get a 'best strategy' together and need advice to do that from those who know more than I

Again reducing risk of them looking back is more of a priority than how to carry on working looking forward although one is related to how I go about the other

length of contract has no bearing on your IR35 status.