When the client scews the result to put you inside IR35

[northernladuk]

They are being very pragmatic about it that's for sure.

[DKB]

I honestly don't get what your problem is here.

This client is willing to give you an outside determination if you say that you would pay a sub if you brought one in. They'd pay you, you'd pay the sub. Why would you not just jump at that, get your outside determination, and move forward?

Were you planning on bringing in a sub and asking them to pay him? If so, why? If not, then who cares if they are covering their backsides in this way?

I don't get it. We're seeing people where the client has declared everyone inside, where the client is clueless, where the client still doesn't know what they are doing. You have this nice client who is asking you to sign a probably pointless statement and they'll declare you outside. Just do it.

As per my update post, there's nothing wrong with being deemed in or out based on the substitution rule. It's the subtle moving of the goalposts that has made people feel like they are trying to change the outcome. Every contractor was put outside IR35 using the tool which surprised people. They then decided not to use the results from the tool and just focus on the sub clause. This isn't an issue of course, it's just the feeling people got that management weren't happy that all contractors were deemed outside of IR35 so tried another avenue. This avenue has now been tried and again every contractor is still outside of IR35. Now they say contractors can't sub if they don't have employees so have nobody to sub to so are inside of IR35. Substituting has been explained to management. There are now discussions about not accepting subs and feels like a deliberate act to put all contractors within IR35.

This never really came across in my original post but was what I was trying to get at.

[DKB]

They are being very pragmatic about it that's for sure.

If being pragmatic is following orders from the top to do whatever is required to put people inside IR35, then yes, very pragmatic indeed!!