Results of the public sector consultation is up

[MrMarkyMark]

That is not the point I have a reviewed contract that shows I'm outside ir35 and working practices to boot. But if my client gets nervous and boots me under a bus then it's at my cost to dig myself out ad even with insurance you may be looking at the next cluster **** like the EBT scandal.

This.

[cojak]

Hmm, given contract outside IR35, working practices sorted then would an answer have been to have got a written "certification" to the working practices from the end client at the start of the contract?

If that's signed off and stated the contract is outside IR35, then even if the client craps themselves and throws you under the bus, surely you could then point out the client had previously deemed you outside. If your working practices hadn't changed and you could show that, you'd that give an appeal against the change of status?

You could, but I rather hope that the 'you' to whom you refer will be anyone but me.

And because of that I'll make my own arrangement thanks all the same.

Good luck to you though...

[daemon]

You are guessing how they are going to go around identifying people - and we can't guess what approach they will use but there are multiple options so don't assume your plan will work. What I will add is those closest to the ground in that area are adopting a safety first approach of not being there come April....

Oh i'm not assuming my plan will work. Its "a" plan, and i'm asking the question on here to whether it "could" reduce risk of exposure to HMRC.

As i said in my posts, whilst i am actively trying to get another contract (and have been since november but in my field they are quite rare), i could ultimately be faced with either resigning with nothing to go to (and potentially being on the bench for months) OR going within IR35. Thus i'm trying to establish the least risky way of going within IR35 IF thats the situation i am faced with.

Back to the analogy i've used - half a cake is better than no cake at all?

[eek]

Oh i'm not assuming my plan will work. Its "a" plan, and i'm asking the question on here to whether it "could" reduce risk of exposure to HMRC.

As i said in my posts, whilst i am actively trying to get another contract (and have been since november but in my field they are quite rare), i could ultimately be faced with either resigning with nothing to go to (and potentially being on the bench for months) OR going within IR35. Thus i'm trying to establish the least risky way of going within IR35 IF thats the situation i am faced with.

Back to the analogy i've used - half a cake is better than no cake at all?

It's probably worth me being clearer in what I've heard down the pub:-

• People (who probably know more than we do and that would be direct from the horses mouth) really do not wish for any determination of IR35 status to be attached to their existing (possibly long standing / possibly not) contracts.
• To ensure that won't be the case they expect to leave by the end of Feb at the latest and have either resigned or will be resigning by the end of Jan.
• The reason for leaving in Feb is because it is any payment in April that needs to be tested not work done in April. That means that work done in March may be deemed inside come April.
• There isn't enough work around here for them to easily slide into another contract - they are not resigning to take another role...

Now you can continue to read that things are going to be nice and easy and it won't be a problem. But if you stay beyond April you may find that the contract is inside IR35 and if someone senior asks the awkward but very obvious question of what changed between March 2017 and April 2017 you may (I suspect probably will) have HMRC claiming that entire contract was inside not outside.

And if the people who are leaving are doing the above they clearly believe someone senior is going to be asking such questions (or may already have done so) and I would seriously recommend people assume that the above is planned and fact. So personally you need to work out what the total tax bill for this contract is from whenever it started and only then decide if the continual monthly income is better than a potential extra tax bill of £10-50,000... Yep I can see why you may not want to stop getting £x,000 a month but compared to a potential tax bill of 3x£x,000 for many it seems the better bet.

[cojak]

Results of the public sector consultation is up

...so basically we don't know if you are going to end up with half a cake or no cake at all if you stay, not if you leave and because of this we can't answer your question.

You're going to have to make that decision yourself.

[jamesbrown]

...so basically we don't know if you are going to end up with half a cake or no cake at all if you stay, not if you leave and because of this we can't answer your question.

Or a sh** sandwich, if they want to apply interest and penalties, given that the contractor is, arguably, implicitly admitting fault. Who knows, they may even try something along the lines of APNs if there's some way via GAAR (massive speculation on my part, as it's not really an area I'm familiar with, and I know APNs are mainly for schemes). Anyway, that EBT analogy may not be too far wrong in the future. A massive tax bill, potentially paid upfront until it gets to court, many years later.

[SueEllen]

Oh i'm not assuming my plan will work. Its "a" plan, and i'm asking the question on here to whether it "could" reduce risk of exposure to HMRC.

As i said in my posts, whilst i am actively trying to get another contract (and have been since november but in my field they are quite rare), i could ultimately be faced with either resigning with nothing to go to (and potentially being on the bench for months) OR going within IR35. Thus i'm trying to establish the least risky way of going within IR35 IF thats the situation i am faced with.

Back to the analogy i've used - half a cake is better than no cake at all?

The least risky situation would be to resign.

[daemon]

It's probably worth me being clearer in what I've heard down the pub:-

• People (who probably know more than we do and that would be direct from the horses mouth) really do not wish for any determination of IR35 status to be attached to their existing (possibly long standing / possibly not) contracts.
• To ensure that won't be the case they expect to leave by the end of Feb at the latest and have either resigned or will be resigning by the end of Jan.
• The reason for leaving in Feb is because it is any payment in April that needs to be tested not work done in April. That means that work done in March may be deemed inside come April.
• There isn't enough work around here for them to easily slide into another contract - they are not resigning to take another role...

Now you can continue to read that things are going to be nice and easy and it won't be a problem. But if you stay beyond April you may find that the contract is inside IR35 and if someone senior asks the awkward but very obvious question of what changed between March 2017 and April 2017 you may (I suspect probably will) have HMRC claiming that entire contract was inside not outside.

And if the people who are leaving are doing the above they clearly believe someone senior is going to be asking such questions (or may already have done so) and I would seriously recommend people assume that the above is planned and fact. So personally you need to work out what the total tax bill for this contract is from whenever it started and only then decide if the continual monthly income is better than a potential extra tax bill of £10-50,000... Yep I can see why you may not want to stop getting £x,000 a month but compared to a potential tax bill of 3x£x,000 for many it seems the better bet.

Thanks for that - that makes it crystal clear.

The answer is then resign, otherwise i'm going to be looking over my shoulder for the next X years....

[daemon]

The least risky situation would be to resign.

Yes, i'm rapidly coming to that conclusion.

[eek]

Thanks for that - that makes it crystal clear.

The answer is then resign, otherwise i'm going to be looking over my shoulder for the next X years....

I know you didn't want to hear it, I'm shocked at how resigned people I expected to know virtually nothing about it are about it...