Edge EBT thread

[jbryce]

Send me a PM too

Michael - is the best place to contact you at Myers Clark?

[Michael J Perry FCA]

Edge and dotas

As this affects a lot of people, we need to establish whether Edge notified their EBT scheme up to December 2010 to HMRC and obtained a scheme reference number under DOTAS.

I have been unable to find a scheme reference number, but if you have one please PM me.

The significance is that HMRC can issue a Follower Notice to DOTAS users without a judicial ruling.

[PeterF]

[...] we need to establish whether Edge notified their EBT scheme up to December 2010 to HMRC and obtained a scheme reference number under DOTAS.

To be fair, it seems it's just you who needs to establish that....

[TykeMerc]

To be fair, it seems it's just you who needs to establish that....

In order for him to establish it as a fact he will need evidence from the Edge scheme users, it reads to me that he's asking those affected to check their documentation.

[Saleos]

Michael,

There's enough guff on here without professionals making it worse. There is no 3 year time limit; but 2 from Royal Asset, for follower notices to be issued based on relevant judicial rulings given before the act becomes law.

S210(6) of FB2014(no.2) says:

(1)In the case of judicial rulings made before the day on which this Act is passed, this Chapter has effect as if for section 197(6) there were substituted—

“(6)A follower notice may not be given after—
(a)the end of the period of 24 months beginning with the day on which this Act is passed, or
(b)the end of the period of 12 months beginning with the day the return or claim to which subsection (2)(a) refers was received by HMRC or (as the case may be) with the day the tax appeal to which subsection (2)(b) refers was made,whichever is later.”

And re DOTAS a quick call to HMRC would confirm it was disclosed. Some, albeit very few, even included the SRN on their returns. During that same call I'm sure that HMRC would also be willing to discuss with you their views on Boyle and it's application here so that you didn't have to speculate on what they may or may not do. I'm happy to share the contact details of the Counter Avoidance team dealing with it if you wish: they don't bite!

The Bill itself has already had its second Parliementary reading. Outside of Edge I am aware that lobbying firms have been engaged and quotes obtained for Judicial Review proceedings to be instigated as soon as notices are issues so some are at least not giving up just yet!

For anyone that wants advice on these new provisions and their past involvement in Edge from someone who knows what they're doing feel free to PM me providing your email address so that I may contact you directly.

I predict that HMRC will use the Philip Boyle decision to issue follower notices to users of non-DOTAS schemes such as Edge.

There is a provision in the Finance Act 2014 for a 12 month limit for HMRC to issue a follower notice after a relevant final judicial ruling.

However, hidden in Clause 210 of the Bill is a transitional provision which could allow HMRC to use that decision for three years from the date on which the Act is passed.

[Michael J Perry FCA]

Edge and dotas - Get your facts straight!

In order for him to establish it as a fact he will need evidence from the Edge scheme users, it reads to me that he's asking those affected to check their documentation.

Exactly, if Edge was not DOTAS registered (and in the seven years of dealing with these cases I have no evidence that it was) then HMRC will need to apply a relevant judicial ruling to issue a Follower and Accelerated Payment Notice (they could try using Boyle).

If a scheme was DOTAS registered, they can issue a Follower Notice as soon as the Finance Bill receives ROYAL ASSENT (probably in mid-July).

If all this is obvious to everyone, I won't bother to offer assistance in the future

[Dylan]

Exactly, if Edge was not DOTAS registered (and in the seven years of dealing with these cases I have no evidence that it was) then HMRC will need to apply a relevant judicial ruling to issue a Follower and Accelerated Payment Notice (they could try using Boyle).

If a scheme was DOTAS registered, they can issue a Follower Notice as soon as the Finance Bill receives ROYAL ASSENT (probably in mid-July).

If all this is obvious to everyone, I won't bother to offer assistance in the future

I think the issue is more that there was a DOTAS registration number rather than anyone not wanting to hear any information you feel is pertinent.

[moggy]

Exactly, if Edge was not DOTAS registered (and in the seven years of dealing with these cases I have no evidence that it was) then HMRC will need to apply a relevant judicial ruling to issue a Follower and Accelerated Payment Notice (they could try using Boyle).

If a scheme was DOTAS registered, they can issue a Follower Notice as soon as the Finance Bill receives ROYAL ASSENT (probably in mid-July).

If all this is obvious to everyone, I won't bother to offer assistance in the future

I didn't think you were just offering assistance. I thought you were drumming up custom..

[Michael J Perry FCA]

Isn't it obvious?

I didn't think you were just offering assistance. I thought you were drumming up custom..

Both!

[davedavis]

Exactly, if Edge was not DOTAS registered (and in the seven years of dealing with these cases I have no evidence that it was) then HMRC will need to apply a relevant judicial ruling to issue a Follower and Accelerated Payment Notice (they could try using Boyle).

If a scheme was DOTAS registered, they can issue a Follower Notice as soon as the Finance Bill receives ROYAL ASSENT (probably in mid-July).

If all this is obvious to everyone, I won't bother to offer assistance in the future

Mr Perry,

It is obvious that the only reason you post on this forum is to sell your services and make money. You prey on peoples fears by issuing warnings and highlighting the downside at every opportunity.

You are just an 'ambulance chaser' at best, and at worst, you are a disgrace to your profession