Edge EBT thread

[FHP143]

Michelle

Edge is no longer around, emails bounce, lines dead but please do post on the forum if you manage to find Michelle....

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record here......Michelle's contact details have posted on this forum MANY times so just read the thread! She no longer works for Edge but can be reached on [mod snip] where she now works. She is taking calls and is still helping out although it's no longer her job. Keep trying her if you can't get through, it took me a few attempts but I did manage to speak to her.

[cojak]

Has Michelle given her permission for her phone number to be placed on a public forum?

Edit: On the basis that's a Don't Know, I will no longer allow Michelle's number on this forum.

Contact FHP143 if you want it.

[Godfrey]

Hi, I'd be interested in joining the collective action, could you assign me PM rights please - thanks

<admin note>Done</admin note>

[edgeebt]

Another ex-Edge employee here. I've read through the thread - very helpful.

Admin please give me PM rights

<admin note>Done</admin note>

[GoneSouth]

Has Michelle given her permission for her phone number to be placed on a public forum?

The 0845 number quoted used to be for Edge Consulting. When Edge Consulting existed 'they' were happy for that number to be circulated to former employees.

Anyone calling it now should do so with the understanding that Edge Consulting no longer trades in the UK and the person who answers the phone is not going to be an Edge Consulting employee.

[cojak]

The 0845 number quoted used to be for Edge Consulting. When Edge Consulting existed 'they' were happy for that number to be circulated to former employees.

Anyone calling it now should do so with the understanding that Edge Consulting no longer trades in the UK and the person who answers the phone is not going to be an Edge Consulting employee.

Thanks GoneSouth - as it is a company number I'll allow it back up.

What a very strange situation, however.

[ChrisB123]

PM rights

Hi could you please give me pm rights too. Many thanks

Hi

PM rights too please - ex edge consultant with a tax bill. I made the appeal as instructed by Edge at the beginning of the year but have just received a request for payment in jan 2014 for the full amount. I have not heard anything about my appeal though.

<admin note>PM rights granted</admin note>

[deesee76]

Pm Rights

Can I please have PM rights please?

<admin note>PM rights granted</admin note>

[K12AN]

Response from HMRC yet?

Has anyone heard back from the HMRC yet after the latest appeals?

[cerner]

No need to panic

Guys, guys, guys!!

lets not panic about this case, the most important thing is meeting the deadline to submit an appeal. I almost miss the appeal deadline as I was away abroad on holiday for few weeks and got lucky to put it in 2 days before deadline day. Phew!!


If you managed to put the appeal in before the deadline then everything else is pretty simple, well from my stand point anyway.


So now lets see,

one or two people mentioned in this thread how HMRC will view your case if you start making voluntary monthly/yearly instalment payments to the loan provider(edge consulting).
While it seems a good idea voluntary repayments will NOT carry as much weight as being forced by the loan company to make repayments and with consequences if you fail to make your loan repayment obligations.

A tax lawyer said in this thread that the EBT-Loan employee benefit arrangement is solid and fool proof on paper but it's shamble implementation by the EBT-Loan agencies/companies like Edge is what is causing the problem.
I actually agree with this Judgement and I'll tell you why in a minute.

In a nutshell, this case is about two sides squabbling about weather a payment is a loan or an income.
We the contractors are claiming it's a loan, HMRC are saying "Oh no it's not, it's a taxable income"


So let's create a virtual court room here to see what happens:

So we arrive in front of a tribunal judge to hear our case and the Judge ask HMRC to explain the reason behind their thinking that the payment is a taxable income. You don't have to be a psychic to guess reply of HMRC.
HMRC will say "well, we have an individual here who claimed a payment he has received is a loan but CANNOT supply documents to support the loan agreement and repayment terms which is the hallmarks of all other loans like mortgages and credit cards etc.. furthermore in the years since the payment has been made to the individual, not a penny has been paid back to the loan provider nor has the loan provider initiated a process for the loan repayment."

So the Judge will say "hmm... very interesting, How about you the contractor. Do you have any documentary evidence to back your claim that the payment is a loan?"
At this point the contractor will probably scratching his chin and looking to the sky.(The contractor has no leg to stand on, he is a sitting duck in front of the tribunal judge)
Some of us with a bit of imagination might reply to the Judge and say "When I took out the loan the loan provider(Edge Consulting) made it clear that, they reserve the right to re-call the loan and request repayment at any time in the future or at any time of their chosen but this hasn't yet happened"

The Tribunal Judge might want to call in a representative of Edge consulting to appear in court as a witness in this case for interrogation.(We all know this cannot happen as Edge consulting seems to have dissapeared from the surface of the earth or re-branded itself as new company, this is probably not good for our case)
Let me tell you this, even if the contractors side paid a lawyer 100 Billion pounds to represent us, If we cannot provide documentary evidence in court to prove to the Judge that it's a loan then the contractor side will lose the case despite hiring an expensive lawyer.

So you may ask, what type of documentary evidence do the contractor side need to prove to the Judge it's a loan. The hint is in the reply of HMRC to the Judge in the virtual court enactment discussed above.

Documentary evidence we need to take to tribunal court.
1. A loan agreement and terms documentary evidence from the Loan provider(Edge)
2. A letter from the loan provider(Edge) adressed to each contractor requesting loan repayment commence immediately in monthly/yearly installments or single full payment and spelling out the consequences of failure to comply.

This is why I believe that Edge consulting made mess of the EBT-loan scheme by not clearly stating the terms of the loan agreement in line with other types of loans. Now they've gotten cold feet and dissapeared.
If we can get the 2 items listed above then I'm certain we have a great chance of winning this case without need for a lawyer and there is even a possibility of HMRC backing off the case and not bothering to take it to court.

When I was sold this EBT-Loan scheme by Edge a few years back, they claimed it was legal and approved by HMRC. Now with HMRC hot on the heels of contractors using this scheme, Edge consulting fearing backlash of writ and to avoid being sued by contractors have decided to pack it in and shut up shop. or have they? they might have genuinely just changed their phone numbers or re-branded for other reasons not related to this case.

But it's not too late for Edge consulting to correct their mistake. They just need to supply us with the 2 items listed above as documentary evidence we can take to tribunal with us then all will be Ok. Item 2 being the most important.



The conclusion:

While Edge appeared to be no more we can contact Michelle Booth to help us get hold of an appointed Edge representative in care of their estate to provide us the 2 items listed above and the letter requesting repayment of the loan in monthly or yearly instatements with minimum of just £1 a year repayment to help us who can't afford to repay the loan in single full repayment. The Letter should also state how much loan is due to be repaid and the consequence of failure to repay.

While I don't know the fully details of the rangers case but somehow he was able to convince the Judge that actually the payment was a loan and won. I'm sure the evidence he supplied to back his case will have loan repayment terms as and or request for repayment documentary evidence at the heart of his defence.

Please feel free to reply back with your thoughts. But be careful in your reply as without doubt HMRC read this post and any admission of guilt on your part will no doubt be used as evidence against you in the tribunal
I for one wholly believe the payment I received from Edge to be a loan and expected to pay it back fully to the loan provider even if I can only afford £1 a year repayment that will take many many years to be fully re-paid.