Edge EBT thread

[cerner]

TheDandy has been going for longer than Saleos who turned up only a couple of weeks ago.

Sort yourselves out lads...

Am I right in saying that even if we join a group today. We are NOT going to stump up cash until the Rangers case is finalized and we know what direction HMRC are heading with the Edge case.

I'm worried if I join a group and stump up cash now, then later HMRC loses their appeal on Rangers case being heard soon and decided to drop pursuit of the Edge case then we that have already stump up Group fighting fund will be scrambling to get our money back. Then finds that the organisers have disappeared like our own Edge

Even Michelle Booth ex-Edge staff member in a recent conversation 2 days ago advised to wait until Judgement on the Rangers case. This shouldn't however stop up from joining a group now but I think we should not be stumping up cash just yet.

[Michael J Perry FCA]

Edge update

The timing of this post is quite relevant.

At this time there is no 'lead case' appeal concerning a test case on Edge (as far as I am aware) and therefore 'Group Representation' for related cases is not an issue. There are potential problems for an individual becoming a member of a group in these circumstances and the decision should be carefully weighed up at the time.

I have been dealing with cases on HMRC and ex-Edge employees going back to January 2007 and although each case will have obvious similarities, there are always factors that make each case unique.

HMRC deal with each case on its own facts and with each individual. You will all know that HMRC are not dealing with any 'group' but with you.

It is tempting to join the crowd in what seems like an easy solution to the problem at minimum cost, but you may not be aware of all the issues or how things are likely to proceed.

My observations and prediction (subject to change) at this time are:

1. The case of Philip Boyle may have little in common with the EBT loan scheme operated by Edge but that is not the point. The important fact of the decision in this case (the first of its kind) is that it goes some way towards clarifying the existing law at the time you were a member of the scheme and HMRC won on all counts. The taxpayer has been given a right of appeal. That is the case you should be supporting irrespective of what scheme you were with!

2. HMRC are likely to write to you in the New Year with a view to determining your Section 9A Enquiries (if you have them) and/or your Section 29 Discovery Income Tax assessments and could issue Closure Notices to move things along.
They will also want to review all earlier and any missed later years (subject to any limitations).

3. These matters are also relevant (if you are not burying your head in the sand):

Consider a Voluntary Settlement while you still have time (this will suit very few cases)

Consider your defences

Your potential total Income Tax bill for ALL years

National Insurance (if HMRC go down the 'employment' route)

Determining the applicable tax due date (possibly earlier)

Late Payment Surcharges

Late Payment Penalties

Interest on Late Payment

Tax Geared Penalties relating to a possible Failure to Notify or to submit Tax Returns and/or Inaccuracies in Tax Returns (these can be up to 70% of the tax bill)

Failure to Disclose (you did not tell HMRC but they found out!)

So I think these are the real issues and you would be wise to agree a Fixed Fee with a properly qualified and experienced Specialist for your own individual case before the **** hits the proverbial fan.

[avitt]

PM Rights

I am also an ex-Edge employee and received the HMRC Notice in November and December.

I am interested in joining the "joint representation" group.

Admin: Please assign me PM rights

thanks

<admin note>Done</admin note>

[fizzy]

TheDandy has been going for longer than Saleos who turned up only a couple of weeks ago.

Sort yourselves out lads...

TheDandy's group has been going longer but it seems we have two different approaches not just groups.

I know TheDandy is looking into Saleos's references and in discussions with Saleos so lets see what he comes back with. Hopefully he will suggest combining the groups even if we have two approaches.

This is like HD DVD v Bluray all over again people don't want to commit to the wrong group.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Saleos proposal

If anyone wishes to request a copy of Saleos' proposal, you can email him at:

matthall AT saleosconsultancy.co.uk

Please do not ask for free advice, as none will be given.

[Gavtrudi]

Gavtrudi

I am another Ex Edge employee and received the HMRC letters recently.

I am interested in joining the "joint representation" group.

Admin: Please assign me PM rights

<admin note>Done<admin note>

[cojak]

I used to advise [so NOT looking for clients] on EBT's and have followed the threads for some time.

On whose behalf were you advising bigdug? Any IoM companies?

[cerner]

PLUS the outcome of the Rangers or any other EBT case/appeal does not matter if the EDGE scheme was NOT properly implemented.

FINALLY good EBT schemes can be defended AND you need to get to bottom of whether EDGE was good insofar as its implementation AND what does the QC think of the SALES brochure - which was an act of !!!!!!!!!!! on the part of the scheme implementer.

I believe Edge EBT scheme loan agreement terms was revised in 2011 by Edge Consulting at the height of HMRC investigation to make it more fool proof and correct any accusation that it was badly implemented. So the latest version of the loan agreement terms which was sent out 2011 will have all the leaking holes plugged to withstand vigorous HMRC investigation. [ I for one didn't get a copy of this newly revised version myself by I know of some people who have]

[Not Losing Any Sleep]

More fool proof!

" more fool proof "

I have a long running and large enquiry from HMRC for a remuneration trust with HMRC... some similarities to an EBT. Until you have an application from HRMC to go to the FTT, it would seem odd to send anyone money to defend your scheme. HMRC won't launch their FTT unless they are very confident of a win.... I'd sit tight for now and for now and enjoy your Christmas. Good luck to all.

[cerner]

If it[Edge] is NO longer around THEN you can virtually say goodbye to any chance of winning - HMRC will argue Loans written off which is a taxable event..

This is also my fear but recent conversation with ex-Edge staff Michelle Booth seems to suggest that Edge is still around only no longer in UK and now based abroad so hopefully the trust to return the loan repayment back to is still around.