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HMRC enquiries for EBT schemes through SANZAR

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    From what I understand, HMRC have already got all of the information they're likely to be able to get. They didn't wake up one Monday morning and decide to send 1000's of DA's on a whim. They've already spent a fair amount of time and effort trying to get all the info they can, so in reality if they haven't got it now, and nobody offers it to them, then they're unlikely to get it from anywhere.

    As stated by another, Sanzar is dead and gone, they don't exist in any way shape or form, so HMRC are unable to actually ask anybody for this information. Whilst other entities may or may not have copies of what HMRC seek, they are under absolutely no obligation at all to provide it to HMRC. That's no different than HMRC asking me to give them details about you, just because I happen to have them.........

    Lets be clear here though, HMRC would (should) have already been provided with all of this information, so if they're now scratching around for it, it's either because Sanzar failed to provide it, or that HMRC can't find it......either way it's not our problem, that's one for HMRC.

    That said, as a previous poster has mentioned, HMRC are unlikely to shut down assessments until you provide evidence of loans received. That's up to the individual I guess. By doing so you are at least getting the potential liability accurate, but then you're equally giving HMRC a stick to hit you with, as at that point they know the figures are correct, so you can't argue on the basis of it being an assessment, as at that point it now becomes accurate.

    Each to the their own I guess......

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      I dont know about Sanzar scheme but if it was giving loan through an EBT, a Trust has a long long life and cannot be liquidated like Sanzar. If you have outstanding loans, then you need to have a party which has loaned you that amount. If that party will not exist any more you will have tax to pay on the gain you have made. Thus Sanzar might have disappeared but the EBT used will still exist with your old details.

      Above is best to my knowledge and best to get cross checked with an accountant

      Comment


        Originally posted by varunksingh View Post
        I dont know about Sanzar scheme but if it was giving loan through an EBT, a Trust has a long long life and cannot be liquidated like Sanzar. If you have outstanding loans, then you need to have a party which has loaned you that amount. If that party will not exist any more you will have tax to pay on the gain you have made. Thus Sanzar might have disappeared but the EBT used will still exist with your old details.

        Above is best to my knowledge and best to get cross checked with an accountant

        Trust me on this one, the people who administered the Sanzar trust(s) have long gone, and with them all the paperwork relating to it.

        If HMRC could easily get this information do you not think they just would have done, instead of having to try and hunt down every scrap of evidence from each and every scheme user. If they could get that information from the trust administrators, then they would not have based the DA's on wildly inaccurate figures, as this has just caused them even more headache then if they were correct.

        I appreciate that this isn't the case for all schemes out there at all, but in the case of Sanzar I truly believe that HMRC already have anything that they're going to be able to get, the rest will have to come from he taxpayer.

        Comment


          So is everybody ready for the impending s**t storm that's coming our way at 12:30

          Comment


            Originally posted by MrO666 View Post
            So is everybody ready for the impending s**t storm that's coming our way at 12:30
            We are ready.

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              Originally posted by DonkeyRhubarb View Post
              We are ready.
              It'll certainly be interesting, I can see the Chancellors headline now......

              "We're winning on tax avoidance"

              I still don't see why they don't just say, "OK, if you agree to never engage in such schemes again, then we'll accept 50% of the 'potential' liability. If you do engage in these schemes again, then the remaining 50% will become due". Simple and very effective, they would close 10's of 1000's of outstanding cases in one swoop, without costs to them, and also basically wipe out avoidance schemes.

              Comment


                Originally posted by MrO666 View Post
                It'll certainly be interesting, I can see the Chancellors headline now......

                "We're winning on tax avoidance"

                I still don't see why they don't just say, "OK, if you agree to never engage in such schemes again, then we'll accept 50% of the 'potential' liability. If you do engage in these schemes again, then the remaining 50% will become due". Simple and very effective, they would close 10's of 1000's of outstanding cases in one swoop, without costs to them, and also basically wipe out avoidance schemes.
                The problem with any solution like that is it is pragmatic.

                HMRC don't do pragmatic.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by DonkeyRhubarb View Post
                  The problem with any solution like that is it is pragmatic.

                  HMRC don't do pragmatic.
                  Well, whatever is proposed it will hit the courts, even if only in the form of a judicial review.

                  I was speaking to HMRC yesterday, a rather depressed member of staff was saying that the great hope was that is would just cause people to cave in and pay up - they're understaffed at the moment and would struggle with the new proposals - especially given the increased volumes of paperwork and TTP requests. I wish I'd recorded the call.....

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by jbryce View Post
                    Well, whatever is proposed it will hit the courts, even if only in the form of a judicial review.

                    I was speaking to HMRC yesterday, a rather depressed member of staff was saying that the great hope was that is would just cause people to cave in and pay up - they're understaffed at the moment and would struggle with the new proposals - especially given the increased volumes of paperwork and TTP requests. I wish I'd recorded the call.....

                    It really does stun me that they're so blinded to the damn obvious, and that by just working with the taxpayer to try and come to a mutual resolution is a far far better option than trying beat them into submission. The more they kick the more we dig our heals in.

                    They are without question the biggest bully going.....they just don't get it at all.

                    Comment


                      Did I miss it (which is possible), or did the Chancellor not mention anything about Tax Avoidance at all ???

                      Comment

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