HMRC Enquiry letters on Loans from EBT and other schemes

[Finalwhistle]

It's unlikely any firm will put their prices on here.

I was logging in expecting my PM inbox to be full of offers ) perhaps a little lazy of me. Don't worry i'm already in touch with WTT regarding a quotation.

[Jarzinhio]

EBT against Self employed loans

Hi webberg, I did PM you and you replied with prices but did not reply to my follow up question. What is best number to get yourself/WTT on to discuss further with yourself?

So are you saying you have actually settled some cases with HMRC now and are happy with the outcome i.e did HMRC compromise slightly and guarantee that's closure. So they won't look at Closed years and apply the Apr 2019 charge?
I know since the Rangers Case resolution in favour of HMRC you were basing you settlement around that. Has the Rangers case helped your case in reaching a more favourable deal with HMRC. As you know I was with Horizon and their EBT ran from 2003 till early 2012 and then after 2012 had been self employed loans. How are you guys dealing with the SE loans.
OR are you still in discussions with HMRC around the EBT Ranger case etc. and not had any wins yet. Thanks.

It's unlikely any firm will put their prices on here.

Firms tend to charge in two ways.

One is an hourly rate which varies according to who is doing the work (higher rates from more experienced people). Good in that you pay for time spent. Not so good if you don't know at the outset how many hours are going to be spent. Also not good if the adviser is going to rack up a number of hours just to get to the start line.

The other is a fixed rate. Good in that the fee does not change, regardless of the time requirement. Not so good as the fee is usually payable up front and is not refundable. Also not good if you think that the work is not worth it.

Personal choice.

You need to call and ask.

[Finalwhistle]

Hi webberg, I did PM you and you replied with prices but did not reply to my follow up question. What is best number to get yourself/WTT on to discuss further with yourself?

So are you saying you have actually settled some cases with HMRC now and are happy with the outcome i.e did HMRC compromise slightly and guarantee that's closure. So they won't look at Closed years and apply the Apr 2019 charge?
I know since the Rangers Case resolution in favour of HMRC you were basing you settlement around that. Has the Rangers case helped your case in reaching a more favourable deal with HMRC. As you know I was with Horizon and their EBT ran from 2003 till early 2012 and then after 2012 had been self employed loans. How are you guys dealing with the SE loans.
OR are you still in discussions with HMRC around the EBT Ranger case etc. and not had any wins yet. Thanks.

Jarzinho,
I am not answering on behalf of webberg (obviously). My understanding is that advisors are unable to get a better deal with HMRC, but can check to make sure that HMRC aren't taking the p1ss!. Also i believe the April 19 LC applies to everything from April 1999 so there is no such thing as closed years. fun hey

[Finalwhistle]

De Graaf?

Jarzinho,
were you involved with De Graaf at all as i know they used self employed loan schemes. if so get in touch as there are a few of us involved and trying to get together and pay as a group for an assessment of the arrangement.

[webberg]

Hi webberg, I did PM you and you replied with prices but did not reply to my follow up question. What is best number to get yourself/WTT on to discuss further with yourself?

So are you saying you have actually settled some cases with HMRC now and are happy with the outcome i.e did HMRC compromise slightly and guarantee that's closure. So they won't look at Closed years and apply the Apr 2019 charge?
I know since the Rangers Case resolution in favour of HMRC you were basing you settlement around that. Has the Rangers case helped your case in reaching a more favourable deal with HMRC. As you know I was with Horizon and their EBT ran from 2003 till early 2012 and then after 2012 had been self employed loans. How are you guys dealing with the SE loans.
OR are you still in discussions with HMRC around the EBT Ranger case etc. and not had any wins yet. Thanks.

Best number -look on our website please.

Have we helped some settle? Yes. Are we "happy" with the outcome? No. Is the client willing to accept the compromises and shortcomings? Yes.

Not sure how you leap from the position that we and the other advisers here constantly say is the case, i.e. there is no negotiation of the CLSO, to "won't look at closed years and apply the April 19 charge?"

The present CLSO includes closed years and asks you to volunteer to pay tax on the loans but by "concession" does not charge interest on that tax. In fact charging interest on a voluntary payment is not legally possible. And if you choose not to volunteer tax, they will withdraw the offer.

Closed years are irrelevant when looking at DR charge. ALL loans outstanding at the trigger dates are going to be taxed.

There is a question about whether years dealt with via the present or the earlier CLSO which were closed, will be taxed in 2019. I have a view. Other advisers disagree. I'm looking again at the rules.

We have based on resolution on the principles found in Rangers ever since we first appeared in early 2015. Rangers is an important marker, but not the only one.

Not sure what a more favourable deal means. Are we progressing our resolution plan? Yes. Have we reached agreement with HMRC on that? No.

Horizon schemes present a number of problems that are peculiar to that scheme. These become more difficult if the offer to avoid the DR charge was taken up.

"SE schemes" are unlikely to exist in reality. Employer or self employed is not your choice to make. It's a function of what you did, for whom and how. In almost every case we have seen, people who moved from "employed" to "self employed" schemes hardly ever changed their end client, agency or arrangement with the promoter, except on paper. Whilst the documents have a part to play, we think it likely that self assessing as "self employed" actually makes little difference to the overall analysis of the facts. It may be that claiming such status is a problem for how information has been supplied to HMRC, but that is distinct from the FACTS.

[Finalwhistle]

Settle vs CLSO?

Best number -look on our website please.

Have we helped some settle? Yes. Are we "happy" with the outcome? No. Is the client willing to accept the compromises and shortcomings? Yes.

Not sure how you leap from the position that we and the other advisers here constantly say is the case, i.e. there is no negotiation of the CLSO, to "won't look at closed years and apply the April 19 charge?"

The present CLSO includes closed years and asks you to volunteer to pay tax on the loans but by "concession" does not charge interest on that tax. In fact charging interest on a voluntary payment is not legally possible. And if you choose not to volunteer tax, they will withdraw the offer.

Closed years are irrelevant when looking at DR charge. ALL loans outstanding at the trigger dates are going to be taxed.

Is ‘settling’ with the “shortcomings and compromises” different from going through the CLSO voluntary process?

[webberg]

Is ‘settling’ with the “shortcomings and compromises” different from going through the CLSO voluntary process?

Please read the exchange in context.

Settlement in this context is CLSO.

[Finalwhistle]

Please read the exchange in context.

Settlement in this context is CLSO.

Got it. Then I guess there is settlement in context to the resolution of an ongoing open enquiry between client and HMRC?

If the above is true, then is it possible to get an indication of which provides the better ‘terms’ based on the scheme subject to enquiry?

[Delendog]

Got it. Then I guess there is settlement in context to the resolution of an ongoing open enquiry between client and HMRC?

If the above is true, then is it possible to get an indication of which provides the better ‘terms’ based on the scheme subject to enquiry?

They will be the same........

[stonehenge]

HMRC's stance is CLSO2, take it or leave it.