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HMRC Enquiry letters on Loans from EBT and other schemes

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    4 years vs 6/20 years

    There's been some discussion over timelines for discovery assessments and the 4/6/20 year windows.

    To summarise:
    HMRC can go back 4 years under normal circumstances, 6 years where carelessness can be shown, and 20 years where fraud can be shown.

    What constitutes a discovery assessment is covered by
    SALF409 - Enquiries into Tax Returns: discovery assessments and HMRC vs Charlton




    I want to cover what the question "what constitutes negligence?" as this will drive the 4 year versus 6 year argument. The 20 year one is pretty clear so I won't cover it here.

    There is a lot of information already on HMRCs website
    EM5125 - Penalties: Culpability: Neglect, Negligence and Negligent Conduct

    additionaly, this FTT case states http://www.financeandtaxtribunals.go...49/TC02825.pdf

    from the top of page 8:

    “We are of the view that the question whether a taxpayer has engaged
    in negligent conduct is a question of fact in each case. We should take
    the words of the statute as we find them and not try to articulate
    principles which could restrict the application of the statutory words.
    However, we accept that negligent conduct amounts to more than just
    being wrong or taking a different view from the Revenue. We also
    accept that a taxpayer who takes proper and appropriate professional
    advice with a view to ensuring that his tax return is correct, and acts in
    accordance with that advice (if it not obviously wrong), would not
    have engaged in negligent conduct”.




    So if anyone is receiving any new assessment letters for 08/09 and earlier, you should appeal and look into whether the assessment is valid as ordinarily the window for 08/09 has closed.

    Also for people with open 08/09 assessments I do not think HMRC can go back further, those years are now closed.

    Disclaimer - I am not a tax pro, just someone trying to be prepared and stand up for myself.

    Comment


      Originally posted by convict View Post
      I've been reading some past cases. One recent FTT refers to the Murray Group Holdings timeline and gives us an insight as to what is going on:
      http://www.financeandtaxtribunals.go...23/TC02800.pdf
      Thanks for sharing Convict - If there's some good news here it does mean that the Murray Holdings and this Peele case will provide a good indication of the arguements and what the Tribunal is thinking.. It may not come down in our favour, but atleast it will give a little clarity..

      Comment


        Originally posted by ME08 View Post
        when did they get these assessments? Isn't the windown closed for 07/08 and 06/07?
        There was a spate of them early this year. HMRC are trying to argue negligence which gives them 6 years, after the end of the tax year, rather than the normal 4 years.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Michael J Perry FCA View Post
          Issued on 11/09/2013:

          HM Revenue & Customs: Contractor loan schemes

          I am happy to deal with any questions by Private Message.


          Michael J Perry FCA
          Michael - i have received a letter today from HRMC relating to my 09/10 employment with Sanzar. How do i contact you to discuss?

          cheers
          Mark

          Comment


            Hmrc are watching these threads

            ALL - Be aware that the HMRC are watching these threads very closely. I know this for a FACT!

            OK - Lets look at facts and not opinions.

            FACT - If these schemes were not lawful the HMRC would have issued closure notices. No matter the opinion where moral or ethical the ONLY thing that matters is LAWFUL. The law followed by guidelines set up by government. Each scheme is different so Test cases do not apply to all schemes.

            Comment


              Tribunal decisions imminent

              There are now a bewildering number of threads on this and related subjects.

              First Tier Tax Tribunal decisions are expected soon which could affect the future conduct of many loan related pay scheme cases.

              Now may be a particularly good time to at least consider a Voluntary Settlement for those who wish to start putting these matters to rest.

              Please PM me if you have questions although I can only deal with them in general terms at this stage.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Michael J Perry FCA View Post
                Now may be a particularly good time to at least consider a Voluntary Settlement for those who wish to start putting these matters to rest.
                Is there a deal on the table?

                If not then I'd have to seriously question what is in it for people to settle voluntarily.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Michael J Perry FCA View Post
                  There are now a bewildering number of threads on this and related subjects.

                  First Tier Tax Tribunal decisions are expected soon which could affect the future conduct of many loan related pay scheme cases.

                  Now may be a particularly good time to at least consider a Voluntary Settlement for those who wish to start putting these matters to rest.

                  Please PM me if you have questions although I can only deal with them in general terms at this stage.
                  Oh boy and MJP has been saying that he wants to help people like us! Why should settlement be considered? Has HMRC legally won any case against an EBT using loan structure. They lost even against Rangers. Would be interesting to know if HMRC rewards people who get parties to settle!
                  Seriously people do your research and be very careful of what you read on internet.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Michael J Perry FCA View Post
                    There are now a bewildering number of threads on this and related subjects.

                    First Tier Tax Tribunal decisions are expected soon which could affect the future conduct of many loan related pay scheme cases.

                    Now may be a particularly good time to at least consider a Voluntary Settlement for those who wish to start putting these matters to rest.

                    Please PM me if you have questions although I can only deal with them in general terms at this stage.
                    Why would you make a Voluntary Settlement on a First Tier Tax Tribunal decision that affects the future conduct of loan schemes?

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Michael J Perry FCA View Post
                      There are now a bewildering number of threads on this and related subjects.

                      First Tier Tax Tribunal decisions are expected soon which could affect the future conduct of many loan related pay scheme cases.

                      Now may be a particularly good time to at least consider a Voluntary Settlement for those who wish to start putting these matters to rest.

                      Please PM me if you have questions although I can only deal with them in general terms at this stage.
                      If there is a deal at the table surely this means the HMRC are not that confident otherwise they would issue a closure notice , take you to court and get the money owed. If they are legally correct then why would they offer a deal.

                      Comment

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