AM Limited COP8 HMRC Investigation Letter..

[jrock]

Well, to not surprise, my APN didn't arrive over the weekend. It may have turned up today but I'll find out when I get home. I've not heard anything back from AML today either. They advised me that they would have an update newsletter out last Wednesday which then turned to Thursday. Nothing has come from them today and I sent them a chaser email late this morning but I haven't had a response back yet. Has anyone else heard anything?

Just received an AML announcement email.

Basically asking to stump up £250 to help cover costs!

[webberg]

Just received an AML announcement email.

Basically asking to stump up £250 to help cover costs!

Wedge. End. Thin?

[Crofty]

Wedge. End. Thin?

The requested 250 pounds is purely for joining the JR to stop the APNs, you don't have to join in with this action and AML will still pursue your defense against the tax demanded by HMRC without further charge.

If you don't join the JR then you can appeal direct to HMRC individually and buy yourself another 90 days before HMRC re-issue your APN assuming they don't listen to your appeal which seems likely. Basically if you want to hang on to your cash or remain solvent then you need to join the JR which will cost 250 pounds for those not currently operating through AML.

I haven't used AML for many years now, since they changed the EBT rules in fact, but I do object to retrospective changes in the way that tax rules are applied so as to result in nullifying my, at the time, legitimate tax avoidance planning.

I'll be joining the JR and paying out the 250 pounds so that I have some protection from HMRC's over zealous grasp.

[LandRover]

The requested 250 pounds is purely for joining the JR to stop the APNs, you don't have to join in with this action and AML will still pursue your defense against the tax demanded by HMRC without further charge.

If you don't join the JR then you can appeal direct to HMRC individually and buy yourself another 90 days before HMRC re-issue your APN assuming they don't listen to your appeal which seems likely. Basically if you want to hang on to your cash or remain solvent then you need to join the JR which will cost 250 pounds for those not currently operating through AML.

I haven't used AML for many years now, since they changed the EBT rules in fact, but I do object to retrospective changes in the way that tax rules are applied so as to result in nullifying my, at the time, legitimate tax avoidance planning.

I'll be joining the JR and paying out the 250 pounds so that I have some protection from HMRC's over zealous grasp.

Do you have to have an APN notification to join?

I thought it was pointless unless you have received an APN.

[Crofty]

Do you have to have an APN notification to join?

I thought it was pointless unless you have received an APN.

If you aren't going to get an APN then I think I'd agree with you but just because it hasn't dropped through your letterbox yet doesn't mean that HMRC have let you off the hook!

I don't fully understand the legal process of putting in a JR application against HMRC's APNs but I would imagine that AML want to go through the process once with all their clients together in a joint action. If you miss the boat then presumably you will be paying the demand when it arrives. AML would still carry on fighting your corner in terms of tax planning.

[LandRover]

If you aren't going to get an APN then I think I'd agree with you but just because it hasn't dropped through your letterbox yet doesn't mean that HMRC have let you off the hook!

I don't fully understand the legal process of putting in a JR application against HMRC's APNs but I would imagine that AML want to go through the process once with all their clients together in a joint action. If you miss the boat then presumably you will be paying the demand when it arrives. AML would still carry on fighting your corner in terms of tax planning.

I thought with a JR against APN then individuals appealing against their APN would have to be listed. So what is the point if you haven't yet received one? Not saying it won't come in a months time, but that may well be after appeal has been lodged at court. Asking for £250 is fair enough for appealing your APN in JR, but if you haven't had it yet then your paying £250 for what?

[DonkeyRhubarb]

I thought with a JR against APN then individuals appealing against their APN would have to be listed. So what is the point if you haven't yet received one? Not saying it won't come in a months time, but that may well be after appeal has been lodged at court. Asking for £250 is fair enough for appealing your APN in JR, but if you haven't had it yet then your paying £250 for what?

With the Saleos JR you can only join when you receive an APN. I believe their plan is to periodically provide the court with an updated list of users to be included in the order/injunction. So it doesn't matter if you receive an APN now or in 6 month's time.

It would be worth clarifying with AML if they are intending to do a similar thing.

[webberg]

I thought with a JR against APN then individuals appealing against their APN would have to be listed. So what is the point if you haven't yet received one? Not saying it won't come in a months time, but that may well be after appeal has been lodged at court. Asking for £250 is fair enough for appealing your APN in JR, but if you haven't had it yet then your paying £250 for what?

You can ONLY take a JR challenge when there is something to challenge, i.e. a notice (APN).

So, no APN = no JR = no fee.

The actual process is two stage. The first is a JR to challenge the right of HMRC to issue a notice. The second is an injunction to prevent HMRC collecting the cash. You have to be named for the second part.

I think it is now confirmed that a demand stayed behind an injunction will not also delay the penalty dates which remain as originally set.

I would also say that if you write to HMRC to make a representation, you do not get an automatic 90 day extension. The time line is warning notice 1 to 6 weeks pre demand. APN arrives with 90 days to pay. A representation made close to the payment date means that HMRC has to consider and respond. There is no time limit for this. Once a response is made, you have 30 days to pay.

I was asked today whether a time to pay arrangement would prevent a penalty arising. I don't know yet but I will tomorrow.

[LandRover]

With the Saleos JR you can only join when you receive an APN. I believe their plan is to periodically provide the court with an updated list of users to be included in the order/injunction. So it doesn't matter if you receive an APN now or in 6 month's time.

It would be worth clarifying with AML if they are intending to do a similar thing.

Thanks, I thought and was trying to remember where I had read that you needed APN in order to appeal. Agree AML will need to clarify if they are indeed updating HMRC going forward.

What happens if JR decision goes in our favour? Does that mean no APN will be given for all AML users who are still awaiting APN?

[webberg]

Thanks, I thought and was trying to remember where I had read that you needed APN in order to appeal. Agree AML will need to clarify if they are indeed updating HMRC going forward.

What happens if JR decision goes in our favour? Does that mean no APN will be given for all AML users who are still awaiting APN?

It depends on whether the decision is based on general principles or your specific circumstances.

If a judge says that the APN process is flawed (e.g. has to have an appeal process) or that HMRC is not the right body to issue them or HMRC has not followed the rules, then you get either a withdrawal of all APN's and a reissue post new rules being published or some form of amendment.

If a judge says that in the circumstances of "scheme X" no APN could be issued, it's specific.

So as with all things APN, nobody really knows.