EBT HELL: Assignment Solutions Isle Of Man / Premier Tax Strategies / DMS

[AlCapone]

settlement figures

Has anyone had any settlement figures through from HMRC yet?

[frodo]

hi sorry I'm a newbie here. I have received a settlement letter. Does this mean if I don't settle that HMRC will take me to court personally? I've seen posts where people are quoting £300k for a QC. Could I end up paying that plus tax and everything else? Would it not be in everyone's interest to settle rather than having bankruptcy looming over them? Sorry if this is basic silly question but I'm pretty in the dark about this.

[frodo]

hi sorry I'm a newbie here. I have received a settlement letter. Does this mean if I don't settle that HMRC will take me to court personally? I've seen posts where people are quoting £300k for a QC. Could I end up paying that plus tax and everything else? Would it not be in everyone's interest to settle rather than having bankruptcy looming over them? Sorry if this is basic silly question but I'm pretty in the dark about this.

Is anyone able to advise on this?

[jbryce]

hi sorry I'm a newbie here. I have received a settlement letter. Does this mean if I don't settle that HMRC will take me to court personally? I've seen posts where people are quoting £300k for a QC. Could I end up paying that plus tax and everything else? Would it not be in everyone's interest to settle rather than having bankruptcy looming over them? Sorry if this is basic silly question but I'm pretty in the dark about this.

I think you should read the threads under HMRC enquiries.
If you settle you pay amount + interest and give up all right if your scheme subsequently wins in court.
If you don't settle you will get an APN for the amount. At some point the case will come to an FTT - it may be you - it may be someone else.
However, it's more likely that a representative case for a contractor EBT will be taken to court and things will move on from there. HMRC have lost twice in the Rangers case (not really representative) which shows they do lose.

If we ask Rob79 nicely - he may knock together a more correct potted version of where things stand......

[frodo]

I think you should read the threads under HMRC enquiries.
If you settle you pay amount + interest and give up all right if your scheme subsequently wins in court.
If you don't settle you will get an APN for the amount. At some point the case will come to an FTT - it may be you - it may be someone else.
However, it's more likely that a representative case for a contractor EBT will be taken to court and things will move on from there. HMRC have lost twice in the Rangers case (not really representative) which shows they do lose.

If we ask Rob79 nicely - he may knock together a more correct potted version of where things stand......

Thanks. So how do you think HMRC would work out litigation costs for individuals if they win? Would they split it across scheme members? As a side note don't they have in-house litigation teams? If so what costs would they be potentially be claiming for?

[Rob79]

Thanks. So how do you think HMRC would work out litigation costs for individuals if they win? Would they split it across scheme members? As a side note don't they have in-house litigation teams? If so what costs would they be potentially be claiming for?

At the risk of not living up to the billing, there is some good advice in the responses above.

The normal HMRC process is to select one or more individual users of a scheme as representatives. That selection is usually done in conjunction with the scheme and its advisers. Therefore a balanced position is likely with some strong candidates and some weaker. Where the scheme has folded or is no longer co-operating with HMRC than those selections are at HMRC's discretion and tend to be the weaker candidates.

Once a sample/individual has been selected, if a settlement has not been offered/accepted, then the process is for there to be an exchange of views on the tax position and in the absence of an agreement, HMRC will issue a closure notice. This can be appealed and if so the case will be listed for hearing at the First Tier Tribunal.

The FTT is relatively informal. There is no need to have a professional advocate and many taxpayers appear on their own behalf. In such instances the judge will take pains to ensure fairness and no bullying is allowed. It is also usually the case that costs will not be awarded against a litigant in person unless he/she has been capricious or deliberately thought to be wasting time or delaying, i.e. only the most serious of idiots.

A decision from the FTT can be appealed to the Upper Tier Tribunal, then Court of Appeal, then Supreme Court. Each of these has the power to refuse to hear an appeal. If so, an application for review can be made but they are rarely successful. (Not to be confused with Judicial Review of HMRC powers that have different rules, sequences and consequences).

So a litigant in person is unlikely to be landed with costs but if they are, they are liable to bear them all.

If there is a group fighting a cause, then the costs may be shared but that depends on the contract agreed between the members and the Courts and HMRC will not intervene.

[AlCapone]

At the risk of not living up to the billing, there is some good advice in the responses above.

The normal HMRC process is to select one or more individual users of a scheme as representatives. That selection is usually done in conjunction with the scheme and its advisers. Therefore a balanced position is likely with some strong candidates and some weaker. Where the scheme has folded or is no longer co-operating with HMRC than those selections are at HMRC's discretion and tend to be the weaker candidates.

Once a sample/individual has been selected, if a settlement has not been offered/accepted, then the process is for there to be an exchange of views on the tax position and in the absence of an agreement, HMRC will issue a closure notice. This can be appealed and if so the case will be listed for hearing at the First Tier Tribunal.

The FTT is relatively informal. There is no need to have a professional advocate and many taxpayers appear on their own behalf. In such instances the judge will take pains to ensure fairness and no bullying is allowed. It is also usually the case that costs will not be awarded against a litigant in person unless he/she has been capricious or deliberately thought to be wasting time or delaying, i.e. only the most serious of idiots.

A decision from the FTT can be appealed to the Upper Tier Tribunal, then Court of Appeal, then Supreme Court. Each of these has the power to refuse to hear an appeal. If so, an application for review can be made but they are rarely successful. (Not to be confused with Judicial Review of HMRC powers that have different rules, sequences and consequences).

So a litigant in person is unlikely to be landed with costs but if they are, they are liable to bear them all.

If there is a group fighting a cause, then the costs may be shared but that depends on the contract agreed between the members and the Courts and HMRC will not intervene.

Thanks for that. So I'm I correct in thinking a contractor can avoid triubunal if they don't settle, even if they are selected as a test case, by paying/complying with the closure notice?

[Rob79]

Thanks for that. So I'm I correct in thinking a contractor can avoid triubunal if they don't settle, even if they are selected as a test case, by paying/complying with the closure notice?

You need to go through the process.

If you don't settle, a closure notice is issued and HMRC will issue and assessment. That assessment needs to be paid UNLESS an appeal is made.

If an appeal is made and the parties cannot agree the outcome, it will go to Tribunal.

If you pay the amount demanded, that's the end of the process and there is no Tribunal appearance.

The position becomes more complicated where several people use the same scheme and some settle, some accept the closure notice and some want to fight in Tribunal.

To a degree you can choose which group you want to be in. It might however be the case that the peddler or the scheme and/or HMRC want to have a common result for all parties and as such all appeals are "joined" and individual settlement becomes difficult (although HMRC will never turn down the cash) or stalled for a time. This involves a complex set of case management hearings (called Rule 18) and you will normally be aware of them only if you join one of the fighting groups.

Sorry - complicated answer to simple question.

Rather than bore the others here, I can answer further questions via PM if you wish.

[AlCapone]

You need to go through the process.

If you don't settle, a closure notice is issued and HMRC will issue and assessment. That assessment needs to be paid UNLESS an appeal is made.

If an appeal is made and the parties cannot agree the outcome, it will go to Tribunal.

If you pay the amount demanded, that's the end of the process and there is no Tribunal appearance.

The position becomes more complicated where several people use the same scheme and some settle, some accept the closure notice and some want to fight in Tribunal.

To a degree you can choose which group you want to be in. It might however be the case that the peddler or the scheme and/or HMRC want to have a common result for all parties and as such all appeals are "joined" and individual settlement becomes difficult (although HMRC will never turn down the cash) or stalled for a time. This involves a complex set of case management hearings (called Rule 18) and you will normally be aware of them only if you join one of the fighting groups.

Sorry - complicated answer to simple question.

Rather than bore the others here, I can answer further questions via PM if you wish.

Thanks for this. Sorry one more quick question. If you pay the closure notice can you pay this in installments and are you entitiled to the money back plus interest should HMRC lose?

[AlCapone]

You are not alone!

A great deal of work is and has been done to support contractors in other very similar arrangements and those doing that work, myself included, are willing to share the benefit of it with those formerly employed by Assignment Solutions. This has not previously been available to former ASIOM employees because we have had no way of identifying or contacting you (for reasons that shall be apparent if you follow the instructions below).

If you received loans from ASIOM and have either an open enquiry or discovery assessment from HMRC in respect of those years please send an email [email protected] providing your full name and address, loans received and the tax years under enquiry or assessment and arrangements will be made to give you access to a secure website containing a large amount of advice and information on the issue and your options. That includes either the current Settlement Opportunity or litigation, for which arrangements are being made.

Simply posting here or DM'ing me will not get you that help.

There will be no cost to you for being given access to that advice and information.

If you have no open enquiry (typically opened under s9A TMA 1970) or discovery assessment you can relax. HMRC cannot now assess or collect income tax in respect of loans made by the ASIOM EBT. They are out of time to do so.

Has anyone had much luck contacting the above?