Originally posted by THEPUMA
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Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies
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Originally posted by GregRickshaw View Post
I am happy to share it with you in a DM. As I said we value your insight and opinions.Comment
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Originally posted by jamesbrown View Post
Received, thanks.
I think (2)(a) would probably be a non-issue except for the point that PUMA made, which is an interesting and unfortunate detail, but it's as loose as a payment plan could possibly be that remains somehow connected to the services (far different than CBS). Unfortunate, but I think it's defensible.
They do seem to be making a big deal of a client not being able to change things directly (as would be the case in something like FA or Xero), but that also seems tenuous to me unless the barrier to changing something is higher than "please change this and confirm". It depends how it was presented, though. If the information is presented along the lines of "these are your monthly salary and dividend payments for year X-Y, please action them with your bank", then it's much worse because an accountant wouldn't do that.
Anyway, it's clearly a million miles away from CBS, but whether it is close enough is what they are testing. I think they're completely wrong, based on what I've seen so far.Comment
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For IPSE members, Andy Chamberlain (the policy director) spoke to CK today - details on the IPSE forums (no great revelations, but worth a read)Comment
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Originally posted by mudskipper View PostAnyone know if closing your company (something I'm intending to do later this year) protects against this sort of crap (if HMRC do widen the net)?
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Originally posted by jamesbrown View Post
My first impression of the letter is that they have indeed focused on those aspects of (2) that we thought they might. However, it is incredibly sparse in detail and woolly about what behaviors they consider to have breached the conditions they mention. It is unconvincing, but that doesn't mean they won't stumble upon a more convincing argument at some stage.
I think (2)(a) would probably be a non-issue except for the point that PUMA made, which is an interesting and unfortunate detail, but it's as loose as a payment plan could possibly be that remains somehow connected to the services (far different than CBS). Unfortunate, but I think it's defensible.
They do seem to be making a big deal of a client not being able to change things directly (as would be the case in something like FA or Xero), but that also seems tenuous to me unless the barrier to changing something is higher than "please change this and confirm". It depends how it was presented, though. If the information is presented along the lines of "these are your monthly salary and dividend payments for year X-Y, please action them with your bank", then it's much worse because an accountant wouldn't do that.
Anyway, it's clearly a million miles away from CBS, but whether it is close enough is what they are testing. I think they're completely wrong, based on what I've seen so far.Comment
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Originally posted by jamesbrown View Post
Also, FWIW, the CK response is pretty good. They make some compelling points about why they were offering vanilla accountancy and nothing more. There are some pointers for (e.g., the marketing materials, the reduced fee structure), but the pointers against are overwhelmingly more convincing IMHO.Comment
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The link to main HMRC manual about MSC is below. Subsequent links there provides in detail the procedure HMRC would take, how to calculate deemed payment and NICs due (if proven MSC), debt transfer, time limits, appeal etc, including which legislation would take precedence in situation where a case was deemed to fall within both IR35 and MSC legislations.
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-man...manual/esm3500
Thanks jamesbrown for your link in previous post that directed me to the main manual and for your thought that dissolution is not a bar. Having read the HMRC manual and the legislations behind it, I incline to agree with you. Although, if Ltds were already dissolved legitimately and no objection made during the closing process, there would still be due process of restoration to follow etc.
@ Moderator, is it possible to have a separate sticky for MSC legislation to summarise factual information about the legislation itself and what contractors could do to avoid falling foul with real MSCP scheme?Last edited by oleanderwand; 30 March 2022, 21:06.Comment
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I would be so grateful if someone could tell me which address HMRC is using to send the letter.
I have left the UK years ago and no longer have access to my post - do they send it to the registered company address or place of business address?Comment
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