Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[jamesbrown]

So assuming HMRC win this - then by the nature of it being deemed payment, the money is subject to income tax and not corp tax. However we have not had the benefit of this money as it sits in the company accounts. So does that mean by paying this bill you can also take out the deemed payment from the company (or any amount up to it) to you personal accounts tax free?

Probably best answered by an accountant, but it's going to get messy. I guess the simplest approach will be to reverse any dividends, secure a refund of the dividend tax (personally) and a refund of the CT (to your company) and then make the deemed payment from there, probably not in that order, though. But, yes, in terms of any retained profit from which you can make the deemed payment, you aren't going to get taxed twice on the same income (i.e., full PAYE and NICs plus CT and dividend tax), so the deemed payment to you will be the post-tax amount and you'll need to argue with HMRC about the refund of CT plus dividend tax. I can imagine it being very messy when you have retained profit covering many tax years, some of which are not in question. Ultimately, though, you shouldn't get taxed twice on any of the amount in question (that won't be HMRC's starting position, but you can reasonably confidently ignore it IMHO).

[jamesbrown]

To put it more simply, if you were working through a company and caught under Chapter 10 of IR35 and the Fee Payer made a deemed payment to YourCo, then you would be free to extract that deemed payment without any further tax due through whatever route you chose (dividends, salary). That should be the end position here too (notwithstanding interest and other costs), but it may be a struggle to get there. Does that help?

[Chevalier]

To put it more simply, if you were working through a company and caught under Chapter 10 of IR35 and the Fee Payer made a deemed payment to YourCo, then you would be free to extract that deemed payment without any further tax due through whatever route you chose (dividends, salary). That should be the end position here too (notwithstanding interest and other costs), but it may be a struggle to get there. Does that help?

If in doubt refer to the “HMRC bible”

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-man...manual/esm3585

you pay a dividend, then claim relief

[Guy Incognito]

The 'DEEMED PAYMENT SPREADSHEET' can be found on the Gov.uk website: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/gds/ir35/ir35.xlt

I am unable to download as it says it is unsafe is there a copy anywhere else?

[fulcon]

I am unable to download as it says it is unsafe is there a copy anywhere else?

If your browser won't let you bypass the warning, change the protocol to HTTPS and it should download:

https://www.hmrc.gov.uk/gds/ir35/ir35.xlt

[Guy Incognito]

Thanks! Don't suppose anyone has cracked the password I'd like to remove the 5%

[antuk]

Thanks! Don't suppose anyone has cracked the password I'd like to remove the 5%

AAABBBBABBBf

[jamesbrown]

Thanks! Don't suppose anyone has cracked the password I'd like to remove the 5%

I believe it's "contractor scum".

[dochkaian]

That's curious, but I guess it just shows how lazy they were. There's no 5% for expenses under Chapter 9 (or Chapter 10) and never was, only Chapter 8, IR35.

So I'm assuming then we can't take into account the 5% for expenses? Surely, the fee's we've paid Boox are deductible at the very least?

[dochkaian]

So I'm assuming then we can't take into account the 5% for expenses? Surely, the fee's we've paid Boox are deductible at the very least?

Following on from my post, just rechecked my worst case tax liability, and my 2017/18 PAYE and NI for 2017/18, 2018/19 and 2019/2020, both include 5% expenses in the fee payable that HMRC have given. I agree it's not in Chapter 9.