Old Umbrella Company (Tailored) in Liquidation

[fightforfraud]

How to deal with this scam

Is contacting debt / insolvency lawyer is best option ?

[webberg]

I have enquired and sent note to Thomas but no reply yet

Mr Thomas is on leave and will not be able to respond quickly.

Thomas (Tom) Wallace is leading this but today has been on conference calls with a very senior HMRC officer and a well known MP. He will be available but not until later tomorrow.

[fightforfraud]

Mr Thomas is on leave and will not be able to respond quickly.

Thomas (Tom) Wallace is leading this but today has been on conference calls with a very senior HMRC officer and a well known MP. He will be available but not until later tomorrow.

" That's fine, contacted because he posted note on this forum and I read he is leading this. Hope he or someone reply back sooner. People wants to know if you can help here and how "

[Laith]

Is anyone dealing with any other companies other than WTT?

They have pretty much just ignored me and the earliest I can even speak to anyone there a call is a week?

I have logged an enquiry with Freeth solicitors. They seem to be good and have experience dealing with this type of case from what I’ve read from the forum.

[Laura1984]

Hi would Tom be discussing this with the HMRC officer ?

QUOTE=webberg;2800449]Mr Thomas is on leave and will not be able to respond quickly.

Thomas (Tom) Wallace is leading this but today has been on conference calls with a very senior HMRC officer and a well known MP. He will be available but not until later tomorrow.[/QUOTE]

[eek]

Hi would Tom be discussing this with the HMRC officer ?

QUOTE=webberg;2800449]Mr Thomas is on leave and will not be able to respond quickly.

Thomas (Tom) Wallace is leading this but today has been on conference calls with a very senior HMRC officer and a well known MP. He will be available but not until later tomorrow.

[/QUOTE]

this side of things has nothing to do with HMRC - this is a liquidator trying to collect money he believes you owe the company as the company “lent” it to you

[Laith]

this side of things has nothing to do with HMRC - this is a liquidator trying to collect money he believes you owe the company as the company “lent” it to you[/QUOTE]


True.. however if we have HMRC backing which may help prove that the “loan” was in fact income and taxable then surely that’s a solid case?

[Iliketax]

if we have HMRC backing which may help prove that the “loan” was in fact income and taxable then surely that’s a solid case?

No. That is just not true. There are lot of tax rules that mean that tax of one sort or other is due on loans but that doesn't change it from being a loan (e.g. employee disguised remuneration, self-employed disguised remuneration, loans to participators, mixed partnership rules, disguised investment management fee rules, etc). Each of these can mean that someone has to pay tax when a sum of money received. But that money is still paid by way of a loan.

Now I'm going to be accused of scaring people now but last year that were a couple of cases that involved companies in liquidation where money had been paid out of the companies as part of a tax avoidance scheme that had failed. The liquidators asked the directors to repay the money that the directors had caused the companies to pay to an EBT (and to another type of trust). In each case, the tax avoidance scheme had failed and tax was due. These court cases were not about the tax though. It was all about the responsibilities of directors under insolvency law. It had nothing to do whether there was a loan involved and so in that way it is different to your potential situation (i.e. if it can be shown that you still owe money).

In one (Toone - Toone & Ors v Ross & Anor, Re Implement Consulting Ltd [2019] EWHC 2855 (Ch) (30 October 2019)) the court held that the directors had to repay the money back to the company as a matter of insolvency law as they had been wrong to cause the company to pay it out. The other (Vining Sparks - can't easily find a subscription free link) the court said that the directors did not have to as a matter of insolvency law. The reason for the difference is that the facts were different.

The bit I'm going to be accused of scaring you on is that in my view:

(i) the tax treatment is irrelevant to whether you owe money,

(ii) if you owe money the court will require you to repay it, and

(iii) it will be a question of fact whether the liquidator can convince the court you borrowed money and still owe the company that money.

I have no idea what happened in your circumstances but just saying that the company advanced you money is not enough to say that it did actually lend you money and that you still owe it. However, the liquidator may (or may not) have documents that show that.

So you may need tax advice in sorting out your position with HMRC. But that is very different to dealing with the liquidator.

[eek]

True.. however if we have HMRC backing which may help prove that the “loan” was in fact income and taxable then surely that’s a solid case?

being absultiely blunt why would HMRC help someone who tried to avoid paying them tax.

this is no matter what WTT are selling not a tax issue it is as Iliketax states above and I stated earlier an old fashioned debt dispute between yourself and the company liquidator.

[northernladuk]

being absultiely blunt why would HMRC help someone who tried to avoid paying them tax.

this is no matter what WTT are selling not a tax issue it is as Iliketax states above and I stated earlier an old fashioned debt dispute between yourself and the company liquidator.

Would that not be evade paying tax? Avoidance is our god given right no?