Originally posted by Iliketax
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Loan charge review - Government response is here
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Originally posted by BrilloPad View PostGraham - please keep up the good work. It is appreciated by the vast majority.
I have no issues with anybody expressing their views or telling me I'm incorrect on something, just so long as there is some reason or personal circumstance driving it.
We tried in the past to bring the advising community together but for various reasons that has not happened. I honestly think it's now too late for the advisers to join forces and unfortunately therefore we will be ploughing our own furrows.
Again, those advisers have their view and from what I know about them they all have merit and advantages (as well as disadvantages). We'll see post Christmas - when the promised legislation arrives - whether HMRC and the draughtsman are quite as generous as SAM and the Government has promised and I'm sure that will then give us advisers another opportunity to work together.Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.
(No, me neither).Comment
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Originally posted by BrilloPad View PostIn Feb it will be 12 years for me. No end in sight.
The problem is, the longer you fight on, the more you can get psychologically trapped by "sunk cost".
If you knew back then, what you know now, would you have settled/gone bankrupt to draw a line under it?Scoots still says that Apr 2020 didn't mark the start of a new stock bull market.Comment
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Originally posted by DealorNoDeal View PostI fear those who are fighting on the loans front will face the same interminable battle. It can blight your life if you're not careful.
The problem is, the longer you fight on, the more you can get psychologically trapped by "sunk cost".
If you knew back then, what you know now, would you have settled/gone bankrupt to draw a line under it?
Interesting question about settlement/bankruptcy.
For me it would have meant bankruptcy. I just could not have faced that. I think that would have been worse than the fight against HMRC for me.
Now I have no choice but to fight every step of the way. And there are others who will too.Comment
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Originally posted by VillageIdiotDan View PostI'm the latter of those two scenarios. So as I see it I have, in its current guise at least, avoided the loan charge (which I view as a penalty) but as I received something like an APN where HMRC summarised what they felt I owed the tax liability remains.
Amusingly, not being the most organised person, I felt a quick call to HRMC to ask them to confirm if they have on file any open tax years for myself, they essentially said they couldn't see one and regardless, it's all pre-2010 so no charge or tax would apply. Naturally, I'm not stupid and am ignoring that guidance but it is somewhat worrying that they're misadvising their "customers"!
Otherwise, as it's all pre-2010 for you, you have no action to take as of now. You don't need to report any loans on your next SATR. If you do have Open years, then HMRC will write to you at some point (in 2020 apparently) to offer you Settlement or to update you on the open Enquiry.
Again, if you don't have any open years pre-2010, so long as you had declared the loans on those tax returns (i.e. you didn't deliberately omit/conceal the loans) then there is little-to-no risk of HMRC opening those years with a COP9 now.
That's as I read the report (all 83 pages + government responses ), but I stand to be corrected by one of the experts.Comment
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Originally posted by ChimpMaster View PostThat's as I read the report (all 83 pages + government responses ), but I stand to be corrected by one of the experts.
pre-2010 closed
pre-2010 open
post-2010Scoots still says that Apr 2020 didn't mark the start of a new stock bull market.Comment
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Originally posted by DealorNoDeal View PostINAE but I'm confident this is correct. Or, in other words:
pre-2010 closed
pre-2010 open
post-2010
All hail ipse And sleep easy now
IPSE welcomes Loan Charge review but issues stark warning over IR35 endorsement | IPSE
Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK ForumComment
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Originally posted by BrilloPad View PostI think you are right about the length of time it will take for the loan chargers. I hope we are wrong.
HMRC can keep fighting longer than you can stay saneScoots still says that Apr 2020 didn't mark the start of a new stock bull market.Comment
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Originally posted by DealorNoDeal View PostINAE but I'm confident this is correct. Or, in other words:
pre-2010 closed
pre-2010 open
post-2010Comment
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Originally posted by NotSoCompliant View PostIf you read the governments more detailed response to the recommendations then I wouldn’t be jumping for joy yet. These exclusions (pre Dec 2010 etc) only relate to the loan charge. Although the LC may be exempt in the relevant circumstances, HMRC state that the underlying liabilities still exist and they will pursue them (eg where an open enquiry exist) through a new Tax unit being set up to target Pre Dec 2010 outstanding liabilities. It’s where there are closed enquiries pre Dec 2010 (my situation) where it will become more interesting - ie do they or can they invoke the 20 year time limits? I think they will certainly try and scare many people into thinking they can and get them to settle otherwise threaten with litigation and possible penalties etc ( remember the penalties under the 20 year category is very severe). If if came to this I would definitely get professional advice.
Most people in the know (Tax advisers, former HMRC inspectors etc) have said the 20 year thing is very unlikely as the bar is very high for HMRC to prove deliberate conduct particularly given the law, or lack thereof, at the time. If it were easy they could have already done this years ago before the LC was dreamed up to open closed years and collect interest in addition to income tax in settlement rather than trying the voluntary route. As you say they may well threaten it for settlement purposes, but it seems they are very unlikely to be successful in tribunal.Last edited by wilks; 24 December 2019, 10:42.Comment
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