New loan charge letters from HMRC

[LoanCharged]

We are advised that HMRC is shortly to begin sending more "reminders" regarding the loan charge.

Dear Webberg Et al.

I have received one of the new batch of vague letters you refer to. However, I had already settled with HMRC under CLSO some years ago therefore had been under the impression it was all done with and in the past. This is the first time I have received any letter from HMRC regarding the Loan Charge.

Is your understanding that people in my position who have already settled with HMRC but still have outstanding loans will still have to declare them? If so, then will adding the loan information to the 2019 SATR mean I have to pay them again!

OR can I safely ignore the letter in the knowledge that I have already settled even though I have outstanding loans?

[Paralytic]

Maybe you are HMRC double bluffing?

Pah. I would have gotten away with it were it not for you pesky contractors!

[webberg]

Dear Webberg Et al.

I have received one of the new batch of vague letters you refer to. However, I had already settled with HMRC under CLSO some years ago therefore had been under the impression it was all done with and in the past. This is the first time I have received any letter from HMRC regarding the Loan Charge.

Is your understanding that people in my position who have already settled with HMRC but still have outstanding loans will still have to declare them? If so, then will adding the loan information to the 2019 SATR mean I have to pay them again!

OR can I safely ignore the letter in the knowledge that I have already settled even though I have outstanding loans?

Good questions.

Unfortunately in response I have as many questions and uncertainties as I do answers.

CLSO 1 covered all years to 2010/11. If that settlement included ALL years to then in which you received loans from DR schemes, then I think the answer is that declaration is not needed.

Certainly no further tax charge can arise because by settling, you and and HMRC accepted that the position had become final.

Where it becomes more interesting is where you settled all the years that were under enquiry but there were some years that HMRC had failed to make enquiries for (closed years).

There is some debate in HMRC about how they treat this and we have examples of:

1. Being advised that all years to 2010/11, where settlement was agreed, are outside the scope of the loan charge (no disclosure, no liability), or

2. Years that were not "explicitly" mentioned in the correspondence leading to the CLSO1 settlement, are subject to loan charge disclosure and liability, or

3. Years that were closed at the time of the CLSO1 settlement are always subject to loan charge disclosure and liability.

We always press for option 1 but it has to be said that individual HMRC officers are sometimes reluctant to agree.

[regron]

I do... but you are making other assumptions. I'm being vague due to who may be watching.

Not sure what you have to hide if you have lawfully repaid your loans back, but I guess we'll never know

[lullaby]

Received Letter but never taken any loans

Have also first time ever received "loan charge letter".

I have never taken any loans as have never operated through any TRUSTs.

The only thing i know is ASMG set me on their book abt 15 years ago. but then i never used them ever. I only came to know about my setup with them, is when i received an email from some outsourced dms-xxx firm after 1 year to prep for per. tax. return. To which i told them i have never used their client firm and then never heard again.

Do I just call HMRC and tell them that i have no loans or do they ask some other information.?

[dammit chloe]

Have also first time ever received "loan charge letter".

I have never taken any loans as have never operated through any TRUSTs.

The only thing i know is ASMG set me on their book abt 15 years ago. but then i never used them ever. I only came to know about my setup with them, is when i received an email from some outsourced dms-xxx firm after 1 year to prep for per. tax. return. To which i told them i have never used their client firm and then never heard again.

Do I just call HMRC and tell them that i have no loans or do they ask some other information.?

If it is a generic letter and you are sure you have never used any scheme I would just ignore.

[webberg]

Do I just call HMRC and tell them that i have no loans or do they ask some other information.?

Just make a "NIL" return.

[Paralytic]

Not sure what you have to hide if you have lawfully repaid your loans back, but I guess we'll never know

I was hoping that he could explain why he paid back his loan in the hope that it might help others, but i guess he just came here to get help for himself and with no altruistic thoughts

[BrilloPad]

I was hoping that he could explain why he paid back his loan in the hope that it might help others.

Sorry if this is rude. But the only reason I can think of for paying back the loan is being really stupid. I hope to be proved wrong.

[LoanCharged]

Where it becomes more interesting is where you settled all the years that were under enquiry but there were some years that HMRC had failed to make enquiries for (closed years).

I have gone through the voluminous correspondence and have found that that during the calculation preparation for the open years, HMRC tried to add a closed year but when pushed they conceded that they were out of time for that therefore it was out of scope for the CLSO1.

Would this closed year now be caught by the loan charge or can it be safely assumed to be off limits now?

Also, reading the loan charge letter more carefully, I see paragraph 2 says “if you have recently settled your liability with us then please ignore this letter” which I am inclined to do!