Procorre - letters advising allocation of profits

[Benson77]

Kind of begs the question, what was the attraction that led you to engage with them in the first place? I have always wondered about this, since their website is a master piece of filling glossy web pages with impressive sounding words without actually telling me anything. I'm genuinely intrigued. Thanks

Because it promised to be a one stop shop, taking care of my accounts and insurance, this appealed to me at the time, not realising the bigger picture. I also had colleagues who work in the same industry as me that were/are with Procorre. I offer no excuse other than my own naivety at the time of joining.

This is only my reasoning, obviously there are hundreds of others and possibly thousands more who took up the same offer as me.

[Fred Bloggs]

Because it promised to be a one stop shop, taking care of my accounts and insurance, this appealed to me at the time, not realising the bigger picture. I also had colleagues who work in the same industry as me that were/are with Procorre. I offer no excuse other than my own naivety at the time of joining.

This is only my reasoning, obviously there are hundreds of others and possibly thousands more who took up the same offer as me.

Thanks for the response. I could never understand what they actually did, your response goes someway to answering that. I'm left wondering why they weren't just another vanilla body shop if effectively that's what they are/were. Thanks again and sorry for hijacking your thread.

[webberg]

Procorre have replied to me confirming that they will be declaring these profit shares in the UK.
They say the profit share is my allocation of profits made whilst on project for Procorre and the funds were received via my business development fund whilst on project and the process means I can now declare them on my self-assessment.

As much as I don't want that to be the case I'm finding it hard to see how they're wrong.

1. How will Procorre be declaring the profits in the UK?
2. Which Procorre entity is that and can they supply you with a reference?
3. "Your" business development account? Either you had profits or you did not. partnership taxation in the UK is based on your profits as allocated to you, in the year earned. No such thing as a business development account in UK tax.

If however we take this as correct, then you are paying tax this year on money earned a few years ago.

Ask yourself.

Do you think that HMRC will consider this to be tax avoidance?

[webberg]

I will also say that I wrote a long piece on this today but my wifi failed me at the crucial point and it was not posted.

In short, given HMRC's attitude and the present environment around tax avoidance, it would not surprise me if enquiries were made.

Tax avoidance can include the deferment of liability.

[Benson77]

The profit share allocation is only for financial year 17/18, I agree it was never a business development fund but was just the ODCA rebranded and now rebranded again as profit share, but I got the payments and that's where I am now.

I don't know how they will declare profits, how should they declare them? I asked if they would be declared in the UK they said yes, I dont know the right questions to ask unfortunately.
The procorre I deal with is Procorre (UK) Ltd, 27b Amadeus House, Floral Street, London, WC2E 9DP

I consider myself never to have knowingly avoided tax, HMRC may consider whatever they want I suppose.

There doesn't seem to be much discussion now on the whole ODCA debacle, so trying to feel my own way for now.

[webberg]

The profit share allocation is only for financial year 17/18, I agree it was never a business development fund but was just the ODCA rebranded and now rebranded again as profit share, but I got the payments and that's where I am now.

.

So you got the money presumably a few years ago and you are paying tax now.

That is deferment of liability and as I mentioned HMRC sees that as avoidance.

There is a problem with discussing details of which party did what and when in a public forum.

For all I know, Procorre has good advice and cast iron case and will blow HMRC out of the water if they claim that tax should have been paid at the time the money was received. For all I know, Procorre may be gearing up to defend any such accusations. Procorre are unlikely to come to a public forum and share that information or any information as to how they intend to proceed.As such, advisers such as ourselves have to accept that we are dealing with clients for whom we have limited information.

The information we do have allows us to come to an analysis that (incomplete as it may be) is inevitably aligned with the interests of our clients. That analysis we are not going to make public until we have to, in a Tribunal.

So you are not going to get in depth discussion here on what the ODCA is for UK tax purposes - or more accurately - what that particular adviser thinks it is.

You will reach a point soon where you will have an HMRC enquiry and then you need to decide who can help you - Procorre, adviser, public forum.

[Benson77]

So you got the money presumably a few years ago and you are paying tax now.

That is deferment of liability and as I mentioned HMRC sees that as avoidance.

There is a problem with discussing details of which party did what and when in a public forum.

For all I know, Procorre has good advice and cast iron case and will blow HMRC out of the water if they claim that tax should have been paid at the time the money was received. For all I know, Procorre may be gearing up to defend any such accusations. Procorre are unlikely to come to a public forum and share that information or any information as to how they intend to proceed.As such, advisers such as ourselves have to accept that we are dealing with clients for whom we have limited information.

The information we do have allows us to come to an analysis that (incomplete as it may be) is inevitably aligned with the interests of our clients. That analysis we are not going to make public until we have to, in a Tribunal.

So you are not going to get in depth discussion here on what the ODCA is for UK tax purposes - or more accurately - what that particular adviser thinks it is.

You will reach a point soon where you will have an HMRC enquiry and then you need to decide who can help you - Procorre, adviser, public forum.

I totally appreciate what you say there, I still have a long way to go with this, thanks for your input though.

[NickLeeson2]

I'm starting to think that Procorre issued the profit share amounts for their benefit and not for the benefit of the end user. If you try to contact Procorre they claim that the company has changed hands and the old company no longer exists. They issued the Profit share hastily by email, it was in no way professional. By declaring the figures on this years tax return it will confirm to HMRC that you had an association with Procorre. I don't believe those figures need to be correct. I just believe it cuts down on the task of HMRC confirming that you used the Procorre scheme......then comes the penalties and interest.

[Benson77]

I'm starting to think that Procorre issued the profit share amounts for their benefit and not for the benefit of the end user. If you try to contact Procorre they claim that the company has changed hands and the old company no longer exists. They issued the Profit share hastily by email, it was in no way professional. By declaring the figures on this years tax return it will confirm to HMRC that you had an association with Procorre. I don't believe those figures need to be correct. I just believe it cuts down on the task of HMRC confirming that you used the Procorre scheme......then comes the penalties and interest.

Mine was issued in a nice procorre headed letter! I'm sure they'll send a letter for next years allocation.

[NickLeeson2]

Mine was issued in a nice procorre headed letter! I'm sure they'll send a letter for next years allocation.

Mine was a PDF document with a table of a few rows...... no header or anything. I followed up on the email and was given the value for next year.

All seems messed up. Even the Procorre recommended accountants don't seem to have the answer.