Views of deed of release - confused

[Dmac]

The short answer is nobody knows the answer to that question, so you need to digest the various opinions and make your own decision.

My view is that the deeds on sale are useless. They serve no tax purpose.

There are defences should loan repayment be demanded and - again in my view - your money would be better spent on legal fees defending yourself should that repayment demand ever arrive.

Totally agree with that last bit - THL are targeting the "low-hanging fruit" - the mugs who will pay the 5 / 10% for the "deeds of release" which even HMRC say they do not want.

THL are extremely unlikely to want to take anyone to court over non-payment of their "loan". If you ignore their email, they will go away.

So they're fishing, and collecting £ from any mugs who'll pay them.

[here4beer]

Totally agree with that last bit - THL are targeting the "low-hanging fruit" - the mugs who will pay the 5 / 10% for the "deeds of release" which even HMRC say they do not want.

THL are extremely unlikely to want to take anyone to court over non-payment of their "loan". If you ignore their email, they will go away.

So they're fishing, and collecting £ from any mugs who'll pay them.

So many people are shell shocked from the whole thing, they're desperate for it all to go away - at (almost) any cost. If It was a standard £500, or maybe up to 1%, I'd do it now.

The fact it's such a large amount considering they've already made 15%, makes it not even an option to consider the 5 or 10% options. As a previous poster said, (and me with an entire thread), I'd would much rather pay the same cash to a lawyer than line their pockets more.

[jonesi]

Views of deed of release - confused

The short answer is nobody knows the answer to that question, so you need to digest the various opinions and make your own decision.

My view is that the deeds on sale are useless. They serve no tax purpose.

There are defences should loan repayment be demanded and - again in my view - your money would be better spent on legal fees defending yourself should that repayment demand ever arrive.

webberg - thank you for your reply.

For interests sake I asked a question of THL on their portal:
25/02/2019 11:57:38 Me Admin Hi, regardless I would not be liable for IHT for that tax year. So there is no reason for me to seek a deed of release and exclusion (?)
And got this reply:
25/02/2019 16:10:21 Admin Me Dear Sir, HMRC have still not given absolute clarity to what they would do on the 10 year anniversary of the loans if they are still outstanding. The other reason why people are choosing to settle their loans is because they don't want them hanging over their head, and they also want to tidy up their estate in the unfortunate event of their death.

[here4beer]

webberg - thank you for your reply.

For interests sake I asked a question of THL on their portal:
25/02/2019 11:57:38 Me Admin Hi, regardless I would not be liable for IHT for that tax year. So there is no reason for me to seek a deed of release and exclusion (?)
And got this reply:
25/02/2019 16:10:21 Admin Me Dear Sir, HMRC have still not given absolute clarity to what they would do on the 10 year anniversary of the loans if they are still outstanding. The other reason why people are choosing to settle their loans is because they don't want them hanging over their head, and they also want to tidy up their estate in the unfortunate event of their death.

The loan scheme is sold on the premise its unsecured stays there till death, where it's wrote off, as this debt is non transferable

[jonesi]

The loan scheme is sold on the premise its unsecured stays there till death, where it's wrote off, as this debt is non transferable

here4beer, thanks (me too by the way)

Any idea of what THL are getting at with HMRC and 10 year anniversary?

[here4beer]

here4beer, thanks (me too by the way)

Any idea of what THL are getting at with HMRC and 10 year anniversary?

Go through and check your loan contract. That might be the first time the Trust will 'ask' you to start paying back, then interest is added etc. Not quite sure what that has to do with HMRC though.

[Whysoserious]

Go through and check your loan contract. That might be the first time the Trust will 'ask' you to start paying back, then interest is added etc. Not quite sure what that has to do with HMRC though.

Most trusts have a 10 year anniversary charge (tax charge). This charge exists from the moment the trust was set up.
Even if the loan schemes were not in the HMRC firing line, this charge would still apply. It's one of the small details the loan scheme providers failed to tell most people.

"In every 10-year anniversary of the establishment of a trust, there will be a charge to IHT of 6 per cent on the value of the trust assets".

[joebloggs]

Newbie

Most trusts have a 10 year anniversary charge (tax charge). This charge exists from the moment the trust was set up.
Even if the loan schemes were not in the HMRC firing line, this charge would still apply. It's one of the small details the loan scheme providers failed to tell most people.

"In every 10-year anniversary of the establishment of a trust, there will be a charge to IHT of 6 per cent on the value of the trust assets".

I settled with HMRC some years ago. Worrying about that was bad enough.
Now suddenly receiving texts and emails from THL that appear progressively more desparate
to get me to part with my money. Latest pressure (reminiscent of double glazing salesman) is that
if I leave it until after March I will hav to pay 10% instead of 5% plus an admin fee of some £200
or so.

What I would like to know is given how desparate THL appear it makes me wonder whether the 5/10%
is actually going straight into their pockets and which they have determined arbitarily (and which they can increase arbitarily to apply more sales pressure)
and all that the trust requires is the £200 fee mentioned earlier. In other words have they been given details of
the people to chase by the trust but left what THL charges to their own discrection. When given such freedom it's small wonder
they're charging what they like and pushing as hard as do, I suspect only the admin fee goes to the trust as someone has suggested earlier that a small fee is
all that's required for the release. This would explain their desparate sales measures as the more people they process the more money they
make.

So what I'd really like to know is how I find out who the trustee are for my scheme (Darwin Pay used circa 2011) and whether I can contact them directly
to find out straight from the horse's mouth what they'll charge for the write-off/release. This will clarify whether the 5/10% charge is genuine
or just a rip-off charge to line THL's pockets. I think someone mentioned the trustees are probably BakerTilly in the Isle of Man? Is there any reason why
they wouldn't deal direct?

[piebaps]

Only a suspicion Joe.....................

Baker Tilly is a member of ICAEW. They're a firm of chartered accountants and have a high standard to operate to.

These loan schemes don't sound like Baker Tilly at all. It seems more likely that they were providing trust and corporate service provider services to the real owners of the scheme or schemes. Now that the tulip has hit the fan, they want out of dodge city PDQ and this is likely to explain why they've engaged THL. We know little about THL and who really owns and whether there's any connection to the real owner of the scheme.

As I say that's only a suspicion. Sit down and get googling and see what you can find yourself.

[jonesi]

Most trusts have a 10 year anniversary charge (tax charge). This charge exists from the moment the trust was set up.
Even if the loan schemes were not in the HMRC firing line, this charge would still apply. It's one of the small details the loan scheme providers failed to tell most people.

"In every 10-year anniversary of the establishment of a trust, there will be a charge to IHT of 6 per cent on the value of the trust assets".

Just when i thought it was relatively safe to dismiss getting a DOR - the plot thickens! And now I'm no longer sure.