Views of deed of release - confused

[howcanigetyoualoan]

No, that's why I said ask what it's for.

Does anyone else here know? There are so many experts, somebody must?

[webberg]

We are checking with HMRC regarding what "proof" they require that a loan has been written off or otherwise retired.

As far as we can see the settlement forms simply require that you self certify that the loan will be written off within a given period.

If it is, then there appears to be no requirement to supply proof and certainly we have never come across HMRC asking for a Deed of Release.

If the loan is not written off then there is perhaps no IHT (HMRC remain stubbornly clinging to a false argument), but clearly there is a risk that the lender might ask for the loan back.

In that event the equation is perhaps whether to spend 5% on a piece of paper that might be or might not be required, or save the money and use it to resist a claim for repayment.

I'm not a lawyer and therefore not competent to say whether the loan is enforceable or not and you should take advice on this if it is the chosen path.

Perhaps the best option is, if you are considering settlement, to ask HMRC what proof they require and go from there?

[howcanigetyoualoan]

We are checking with HMRC regarding what "proof" they require that a loan has been written off or otherwise retired.

As far as we can see the settlement forms simply require that you self certify that the loan will be written off within a given period.

If it is, then there appears to be no requirement to supply proof and certainly we have never come across HMRC asking for a Deed of Release.

If the loan is not written off then there is perhaps no IHT (HMRC remain stubbornly clinging to a false argument), but clearly there is a risk that the lender might ask for the loan back.

In that event the equation is perhaps whether to spend 5% on a piece of paper that might be or might not be required, or save the money and use it to resist a claim for repayment.

I'm not a lawyer and therefore not competent to say whether the loan is enforceable or not and you should take advice on this if it is the chosen path.

Perhaps the best option is, if you are considering settlement, to ask HMRC what proof they require and go from there?

Many thanks for this. Do you know what the IHT rate would be charged on the trustees if the loan was written off? And how the nil band is applied?

[ConfusedEasily]

We are checking with HMRC regarding what "proof" they require that a loan has been written off or otherwise retired.

As far as we can see the settlement forms simply require that you self certify that the loan will be written off within a given period.

If it is, then there appears to be no requirement to supply proof and certainly we have never come across HMRC asking for a Deed of Release.

If the loan is not written off then there is perhaps no IHT (HMRC remain stubbornly clinging to a false argument), but clearly there is a risk that the lender might ask for the loan back.

In that event the equation is perhaps whether to spend 5% on a piece of paper that might be or might not be required, or save the money and use it to resist a claim for repayment.

I'm not a lawyer and therefore not competent to say whether the loan is enforceable or not and you should take advice on this if it is the chosen path.

Perhaps the best option is, if you are considering settlement, to ask HMRC what proof they require and go from there?

Quick chat with a lawyer suggests that they will struggle to force you to repay a loan. They'll need to produce Trust deeds which (should) show that he trust can only work in your best interests, selling the loan on or recalling it will contradict that.
The advice I received was wait until they try to request repayment, find others in the same scheme and fight it in court.

[Socialsarah73]

Have had a response from THL -We have been engaged by the trustees and your former employers to administer the communications process - for them to advise you of the impending legislation and suggest some courses of action (in your case xxx and Xxx in 2016). They have employed us because they are not equipped to deal with the sheer volume of communications that are needed. Part of the process includes sharing your loan statement (their records of the loans you have had), and we hope you can appreciate that we need to confirm that your identity matches their records before distributing such information.

Have asked them for trustees details as will engage them directly as I have evidence of 2 data breaches and they disclosed my information (p45) to someone else!!

[kiki]

updates regarding THL

Have had a response from THL -We have been engaged by the trustees and your former employers to administer the communications process - for them to advise you of the impending legislation and suggest some courses of action (in your case xxx and Xxx in 2016). They have employed us because they are not equipped to deal with the sheer volume of communications that are needed. Part of the process includes sharing your loan statement (their records of the loans you have had), and we hope you can appreciate that we need to confirm that your identity matches their records before distributing such information.

Have asked them for trustees details as will engage them directly as I have evidence of 2 data breaches and they disclosed my information (p45) to someone else!!

hi, can you please share with us how this went on? thanks

[jonesi]

Ex IQ/Darwin scheme user - THL and deeds of release - should I or should I not?

hi, can you please share with us how this went on? thanks

Hi All,

In a nutshell a conversation I had over the telephone with an advisor from Contractor avoidance:
- HMRC are only interested in the tax
- HMRC only need be notified if the loans are released and only then may assess for IHT (my particualr estate for the particular tax year does not come anywhere near £325, 000)
- HMRC will not pursue further than unpaid tax
- HMRC will, one tax is paid view the "loans" not as loans but as earnings

I have sent my agreement for settlement and am currently awaiting the bill.

I, personally speaking, cannot see any reason whatsoever (apart from being very nervous about the whole situation!) to pay for a deed of release - am I right or wrong? If there are people out there who can confirm or advise further I would greatly appreciate it ?

Regards, Ian

[webberg]

- HMRC will, one tax is paid view the "loans" not as loans but as earnings

I

I'd be very interested if the above statement could be proven in written form.

If that is true, then IHT becomes invalid.

[jonesi]

What's the advice on deeds of release and exclusion - does anybody know?

I'd be very interested if the above statement could be proven in written form.

If that is true, then IHT becomes invalid.

Hi,

I have to say that the more I look into this the more confused I am getting:

- I have just had a further conversation with CA at HMRC and this advisor's position was that HMRC need to be informed if the loans are not written off the advisor quoting from:

Disguised remuneration: contractor loans settlements and obtaining a deed of release (Spotlight 48) - GOV.UK

‘I wish to have IHT included in the settlement on the basis of the loans being written off or released within 30 days of a settlement being agreed. No further evidence will be required by HMRC of this. If the loans are not written off or released within 30 days of a settlement being agreed, I will contact HMRC so that the IHT position can be reviewed.’

Staggers me how HMRC can consider the "loans" as both earnings and as a "gift" (of sorts - if the "loans" are not released or "paid back")!!!


As it happens, personally, I would not be liable for any IHT for that tax year. And, it galls me to think I might need to "pay back" a percentage in order to be released - after paying income tax on it!!!

Which brings me back to my original question:
Please, please can anyone advise on obtaining deeds of release and exclusion - should I or should I not? I won't have to pay IHT either way but is there any possibility I could get stung further down the road?

Thanks for looking

[webberg]

Which brings me back to my original question:
Please, please can anyone advise on obtaining deeds of release and exclusion - should I or should I not? I won't have to pay IHT either way but is there any possibility I could get stung further down the road?

Thanks for looking

The short answer is nobody knows the answer to that question, so you need to digest the various opinions and make your own decision.

My view is that the deeds on sale are useless. They serve no tax purpose.

There are defences should loan repayment be demanded and - again in my view - your money would be better spent on legal fees defending yourself should that repayment demand ever arrive.