Trust help line email help!

[Galvanised]

Collating Data

Why do you think that we are not collecting and collating information?

We do have several terabytes of data on around 150 different schemes spanning 2000 to date.

We have a prepared analysis on most of them supported by redacted documents.

These are part and parcel of our strategy.

We are able to hold and use such data because it has come from our clients who have given us express permission.

What I cannot do is share the underlying data or the analysis with non clients.

If you wish to recreate the library we have, then in due course I would be happy to compare notes (to the extent I can) but in the meantime you need to be careful about GDPR and the like.

You might also want to take some legal advice about whether, in the event that you did hold such data, you might be obliged by a Government or other agency to hand over some or all of the data. I'm not a lawyer but you should check this out.

I'm happy to explain to you what WTT is and what we're doing if you want to PM/call us.

Clearly I read too much into your reply on a previous post. The additional detail you have provided makes complete sense. In any event, the further material for thought that you have just furnished me with has made me think "sod that then, life is complicated enough as it is".

I did have a chat just now with one of your colleagues. I called as it happens for a second opinion on my prospects for a "final settlement" now that I have such an "invitation" from HMRC. It was all a little bit depressing (certainly not his fault), in that yes I will be done and dusted for the PAYE and NICs, but with respect to the IHT question, the prospects of achieving that sense of certainty and closure that I am so keen to be after is basically non-starter. Well - short of writing out a great cheque to HMRC and getting multiple loans forgiven - I suppose you could achieve some finality and closure that way, but the cost would be mega punitive. So lets discount that till I win the lotto.

Seems to me that I will be sitting on this potential IHT timebomb for a while then (much like this current settlement was a timebomb) until 1) things resolve in the courts, 2) HMRC say "ok we're done here" or 3) it turns out when HMRC gets hold of all the trust deeds etc that they determine a number for each and every one of us (which may or may not be zero).

I'd like to end this on a positive note - so to that end, good luck everyone and isn't it nice not to have had a mail from THL for a couple of weeks now...

[Otunbafis]

On Standby - THL

The last missive I saw from THL, (before I decided that life was too short to waste time on those lacking a moral compass) clearly said that a write off of the loan WOULD be a taxable event.

True, it failed to say that the effect upon the loan charge would be a reduction or explain how the mechanism worked (it reduces the value of the relevant step) but it did say - buried deep in one of the last few paragraphs - that a charge would apply.

I have read quite a lot about THL though I submitted my details to get value of the loan, however I have decided not to send them anything no £250 admin charge and £1220.80 settlement. Will take my chances and see what happens after 15th of March. Thanks to everyone's comments really useful.

[contractDudeUK]

Hi Webberg ...

in your opinion what would be the best suggestion for my case ... i have already setteled with HMRC in 2013, after all these years THL and DOR are hounding me for more dosh which obviously I am not interested.

Thanks.

[webberg]

Hi Webberg ...

in your opinion what would be the best suggestion for my case ... i have already setteled with HMRC in 2013, after all these years THL and DOR are hounding me for more dosh which obviously I am not interested.

Thanks.

Very hard to advise

a) in public and

b) on the basis of no information, including your objectives and

c) knowing your history

I suggest that you read your loan agreement first of all and see when the repayment dates may fall.

If that is 20+ years into the future, then ignore THL/DOR because they have made fees from creating a scenario in which you fear something will happen, that may never happen.

[Iter]

What if the trust docs does not state anywhere about repayment dates, is it possible that some of these schemes are not worth the paper they are written on... and it was just a transfer of monies between user to scheme and viseverser!

[jxtractor]

I have emailed DORResolutions as suggested by the message on the link from THL.

I queried whether the 5% would then be available for disbursement to me, as the Trust is effectively holding my money. However, apparently the 5% would be taken as a fee to cover the costs of writing off the 95%.

Did they actually follow up and tell you that the 5% would be a fee? How can they call it a repayment and call it a fee at the same time? I swear they might have had me if they were a little bit more coherent.

[jxtractor]

Hi James! Can you clarify -- DOR said that your proposal to pay in April was 'fine?'

I sent you a PM, but now, looking at your latest posts, I don't think it's even worth pursuing contractual evidence of my liabilities with Baker Tilly or DOR.

I've merely challenged DOR for my contract to state that these loans can be recalled and that I am liable to pay -- OR that I am a part of so-and-so trust. But I'm getting passive and close-ended replies.

We do not hold any documents – THL might be able to help you

Perhaps you can check your bank statements for the period in your loan statement to double check you received those monies?

Regards

Admin

this was followed by this three minutes later.... (without me prompting a reply btw)

15th March 2019 is the deadline for final payments

Regards

Admin

followed by another reply the following day after I asked how I know I'm legally bound to repay these so called loans if they haven't got any loan agreement evidence?

The Trustees hold all of the documents – if you don’t want to pay then the trustees may well be in contact again in the future

Regards

Admin

It reads like a passive agressive waiter one time I made a mountain out of an order of beef chow-mein! I've very nearly come to the conclusion that they don't want my money!

So, would you like me to pass them on the correction?

I just wanted to see their reaction to me taking the lie at face value, and to again challenge them to explain how they were following their trustee duties.

Interestingly the responses was that this was fine...

Which I assume means that DOR will disappear on the 15th, but is more recorded evidence of the whole Baker Tilly family being dishonest. Which may come in handy if I don't pay and this ever ends up in court.

I have found in the past that recording everything and showing that you are the reasonable party doesn't hurt when things become legal.

[webberg]

What if the trust docs does not state anywhere about repayment dates, is it possible that some of these schemes are not worth the paper they are written on... and it was just a transfer of monies between user to scheme and viseverser!

Trust documents do not have repayment dates.

Loan agreements do.

A faulty loan agreement does not make the trust invalid.

You need to be very careful and separate the various legal parts.

[Bemi]

Hi James! Can you clarify -- DOR said that your proposal to pay in April was 'fine?'

Well, to be clear all they said was,

"Dear Sir,
Thank you for the update.
Kind regards,
Admin"

But given that was in response to me saying I would sign and pay for the deeds in April, I think it is reasonable to use this as evidence that this offer should be honoured in April.

I suspect they've just given up on me as lost cause

[contractDudeUK]

Very hard to advise

a) in public and

b) on the basis of no information, including your objectives and

c) knowing your history

I suggest that you read your loan agreement first of all and see when the repayment dates may fall.

If that is 20+ years into the future, then ignore THL/DOR because they have made fees from creating a scenario in which you fear something will happen, that may never happen.

Thanks webberg.

The only documentation that I have is the application form which was filled at the time of setting up the account with Garraway. I remember vaguely that they had some sort of online portal which mentioned that it was a 50 year loan, but no physical documentation.

For now, staying completely clear of THL/DOR's comms.