Trust help line email help!

[agileSean]

Hence, I'd be interested in any advice you have had leading to the statement above.

I suspect that if the advice does result in the situation you suggest, then this may be specific to your circumstances and if that is the case, then many other users of the forum here may not be in that situation.

Hi
If you are referring to the advice I received that, "there is a risk that the loan could be recalled."

This advice was not specific to me. I didn't show the solicitor my Loan agreement. It was just a phone call. I just explained the set up that I had with the EBT and this is what he said.

Has anyone responded to THL?
I'm considering counter offering them 1% of the loan value. Or maybe just a flat £500. They want all this over with as well.

[Bemi]

Stop dodging my questions

"Your wisdom appears to flow from THL.! Yada yada "you're all spies!" etc etc. YAWN.

Stop dodging my request, which you have still not actually addressed.

Show me:
A) the contract or trust law experts saying it's safe to assume we will never have to repay the loans
B) The bit of spotlight where HMRC state that paying the loan charge has any impact whatsoever on the loan itself (rather than just your tax liabilities on it)

Also, please do share this phone number that you and you alone have for THL.

Unless you made that up to?

[/QUOTE]

[Bemi]

Hi
If you are referring to the advice I received that, "there is a risk that the loan could be recalled."

He was referring to this bit of one of here4beer's posts

Originally Posted by here4beer View Post
I'm told the Trust can only request you pay it back, and you decline their invite, as its a fiduciary 'duty of care' Trust relationship. No repayment can be demanded - like a bank/traditional lender.

[jbryce]

Stop dodging my request, which you have still not actually addressed.

Show me:
A) the contract or trust law experts saying it's safe to assume we will never have to repay the loans
B) The bit of spotlight where HMRC state that paying the loan charge has any impact whatsoever on the loan itself (rather than just your tax liabilities on it)

Also, please do share this phone number that you and you alone have for THL.

Unless you made that up to?

[/QUOTE]

A) It's not safe to say that at some point Baker Tilly (not THL) may not ask for the loans - I wonder where the 10% goes to. mmmm
Anyway - if you signed a loan agreement with Baker Tily then you have a loan agreement with them. I, fortunately, did not. Sanzars admin was pretty tulip. Still I'm not sure that would protect me. Perhaps THL are offering a special protective helmet? or a cloak of invisibility?

B) I don't think I said paying the Loan has an impact unless you pay it in cash and prove that it isn't going to come back in some form (there are a few ambulance chasers out there who are offering schemes that pupport to allow you to dodge the LC).
If you pay the 10% back and can prove it went into the Trust then you'll only pay tax on the 90% I assume. So if the 10% goes to, say, THL and you never see it again then I guess you don't pay the tax on whatever you paid back - sounds like a result!!!!!

As for speaking to THL, in fairness I went throughBaker Tilly to get at THL. Took a few goes. Perhaps it was you I spoke to?

For the rest of us non-THL acolytes. Please read any posts related to THL from new posters with some care. Some are a slightly unintelligent attempt to nudge you into paying over cash.

May I also remind THL and Baker Tilly that people have committed suicide as a direct result of the arrangements sold to them. Perhaps THL and Baker Tilly, with their random demands for money, will push a few more over?

[Bemi]

jbryce.

Yes, yes. Everyone's a spy. We heard you the first dozen times.


So to summarize.

Your statement that

"And of course weighing the risks you were prepared to pay their 'blood money' - but then you hopefully read the professional advice and HMRC spotlight - all of whom told you not to pay the money."


Was false. You cannot provide a single example of either professionals or HMRC saying you can just ignore the loans.


And you cannot provide any evidence that you actually spoke to THL on the phone?

How convenient!


I know it's a long shot, but can you stop attacking myself and others, and accusing them of being THL moles, on the basis of lies you make up on the spot?

Seriously, you are coming across as a really crappy human being.

[Bemi]

NO. I wasn't talking about THL. I was talking about the IHT (inheritance tax phone line from HMRC). I called them to discuss the potential inheritance tax implications if I self-declare that my loans will be wiped off within the 30-days. I spent 50 minutes on the phone and no one could help me. Even though HMRC Contractor Loan team had referred me to them to discuss my inheritance tax queries.

I think this was a deliberate mistake.

jbryce just likes to have a go at people.

Beware the trolls.

[Bemi]

Response to AgileSeans info

Thanks for that Sean. Much appreciated. Some follow up questions.

There is a risk the loan could be recalled. A small risk but it is there.

Why only a small risk?

There are likely, legal arguments that can be made against the Trusts but those will depend on the specifics of your involvement with your Trust(s).

I am Winchester too so will PM you.

I think most of us are in a similar boat though (it's all Baker Tilly beneath the veneers). Could you summarize the basics?

There is a general pressure on the Trusts. They are under ongoing investigation.

By whom? Can you provide a bit more detail on this? Is it likely to impact their ability to recall loans?

The communication by Helpline Services has also been inaccurate and I suspect, at times intentionally disingenuous.

HMRC have declared to me that they have no association with Helpline services. I think at least one of Helpline services’ email have indicated that they are in communication with HMRC.

Do you know whether this can be used against them legally speaking? It seems in pretty blatant violation of acting in our interests!

If anyone would like me to put them in contact with the solicitor that I found, PM me.

Thanks. I will PM you.

Was this a free chat or fixed price session? If the latter, will the solicitor mind others ringing up for free info as well?

It is not clear to me how it can be valid that Helpline services or any agency can be chasing repayment. In my case the Winchester (UK) Limited have been dissolved and records in Companies House state that all rights and property are now Bona vacantia and belong to the crown.

I will ask when I see a lawyer, but I think they're pretty well covered on this as the trust is separate to the business.

Has anyone seen a final Deed of release yet?

No, but I've got one coming. Seen a “deeds help file” you only get once you have sent off the request to see the deeds though (which i've sent to HMRC). Will ask the mods how much I can share on here, but happy to send it to anyone who Pms me. It's basically more of the same but with more carefully worded claims.

What if we refuse a Deed of exclusion? Surely that means that we remain Beneficiaries to any amount repaid?

I assume that signing both is a condition of them signing. But I'll ask this too.

[Bemi]

What's really sh*tty is that I've barely referred to THL in all of this -- and some have assumed I WILL PAY UP. I've quoted HMRC.

I am NOT THL. I am still unsure of my legal position for the loans. Yes, I might get away with getting legal advice for my peace of mind that these loans will not be recounted -- but still looking in this forum for any legal opinions (not sure -- that might be against the rules?)

I am naive and for the most part as in my short career I mostly have been a permanent employee. I have an issue with being a part of a trust managed in the Channel Islands. I would not have had a problem with the hangover if HMRC was more assertive about the fact that these Deeds are a scam or to suggest some general legal advice to people affected.

I hope I can reach out to your intelligence when I reiterate that I strictly refer to HMRC's own articles where they clean their hands of the loan situation and the so called deeds.

To report, I have now received these deeds and an invoice -- im playing along with dorresolutions for educational purposes. I have no intention at the present moment to pay it off, not until I am sure about my legal position. But for anyone that is curious... a zip file is sent with the deeds and an email with instructions.

I wonder if I can attach it somehow or host it (scrubbing out my personal details) -- for people who are curious as to what these 'deeds' look like that are being offered by THL. I haven't come across them in these forums.

At the risk of Yet-another-WAR AND PEACE - I'm going to stop typing until I reach out to some lawyer friends on the loan situation, as I'm just going round in circles.

Don't let the trolls get you down. They're just one more set of vultures feeding off others' misfortune.

I think people want to bury their head in the sand about the loans being real so they last out at anyone raising it. Especially as the loan charge deadline is so close.

Some of us are still plugging away at this, I'll PM you.

[Bemi]

Talking to lawyer tomorrow

I have been trying to find a law firm that actually knows something about this whole mess.

I am speaking tomorrow with Nathan Talbot of "Wright Hassle" who apparently are a real law firm, despite the name. Nathan is a partner their, and has written some articles about the loan charge that you can find online.

I am probably going to call him about midday. if anyone sees this before then and wants a question thrown in, fire me a PM.

I'll reply to this thread with what he says, but it is a free chat so I am not sure how much he will reveal.

I've put his email to me below. I don't remember exactly what I wrote in my inquiry message.




Dear James,



Thank you for your enquiry.



We can provide advice in relation to this. To give a complete answer, we would require the trust documentation you have in place and information about the loans taken from the trust. The generic high level advice around this issue is relatively straight forward. The more bespoke points, going to your specific circumstances, require more thought.



From a cost benefit analysis point of view, without knowing the value of the loans you have taken from the trust, it may be that in isolation we are expensive – my hourly rate is £300 plus VAT and depending on what we are being asked, this task could take 4 hours, it could take 25 hours. Reflecting the point you make in your email, if there are a group of people that you can call upon all in similar situations, then the cost could be shared amongst the group given it is likely to be similar advice applied across a number of people.



My direct details are below and I am in the office for the majority of tomorrow if you would like a brief discussion about the issue and next steps.



Kind regards,



Nathan Talbott

Partner

Commercial Litigation

[here4beer]

I have been trying to find a law firm that actually knows something about this whole mess.

I am speaking tomorrow with Nathan Talbot of "Wright Hassle" who apparently are a real law firm, despite the name. Nathan is a partner their, and has written some articles about the loan charge that you can find online.

I am probably going to call him about midday. if anyone sees this before then and wants a question thrown in, fire me a PM.

I'll reply to this thread with what he says, but it is a free chat so I am not sure how much he will reveal.

I've put his email to me below. I don't remember exactly what I wrote in my inquiry message.




Dear James,



Thank you for your enquiry.



We can provide advice in relation to this. To give a complete answer, we would require the trust documentation you have in place and information about the loans taken from the trust. The generic high level advice around this issue is relatively straight forward. The more bespoke points, going to your specific circumstances, require more thought.



From a cost benefit analysis point of view, without knowing the value of the loans you have taken from the trust, it may be that in isolation we are expensive – my hourly rate is £300 plus VAT and depending on what we are being asked, this task could take 4 hours, it could take 25 hours. Reflecting the point you make in your email, if there are a group of people that you can call upon all in similar situations, then the cost could be shared amongst the group given it is likely to be similar advice applied across a number of people.



My direct details are below and I am in the office for the majority of tomorrow if you would like a brief discussion about the issue and next steps.



Kind regards,



Nathan Talbott

Partner

Commercial Litigation

How similar? Identical schemes, or just any one on a loan scheme? I'm guessing he means people on identical schemes...