Write/email your MP asking them to support EDM 1239

[Calmbeforethestorm]

One issue this EDM has is that LC is finance legislation. To overturn that requires a vote of no confidence in the government.

The time to fight this was 2008. Now that retrospective legislation is legal, the fight is much harder.

IMO it will require legal action. Getting 10% of those affected(10,000 of 100,000) to put in £1,000 each should create a £10m pot.

All well and good BUT, you either settle or face the LC next April....impossible to get into court before then,if you settle then you are contractually bound to give up your claim if it were to be overturned so court action a waste of time....so its actually a much bigger gamble than £1000 as you will have to pay the LC and anything else they dream up in the mean time. Dont forget Huitson took over 8 years to go through the courts and it was lost in the end.

[GreenMirror]

All well and good BUT, you either settle or face the LC next April....impossible to get into court before then,if you settle then you are contractually bound to give up your claim if it were to be overturned so court action a waste of time....so its actually a much bigger gamble than £1000 as you will have to pay the LC and anything else they dream up in the mean time. Dont forget Huitson took over 8 years to go through the courts and it was lost in the end.

I probably should have said, I still hope EDM and other lobbying will rein back HMRC. I just wanted to point out how much effort is required.

HMRC stopped collecting while Huitson was going on. And it is possible to get court orders stopping collection.

For those who will be bankrupted, if they have £1000 it seems a no-brainer. Use it for legal action or give it to HMRC upon bankruptcy.

[Calmbeforethestorm]

Thats true, but this is why they dreamed up the LC so they can still collect whilst any court action is going on.Remember its a brand new tax , not retrospective or anything.LOL

[Calmbeforethestorm]

My Mp ( a government whip) has now written to Stride....got the template response, so he wrote to the head of HMRC and got a rehashed version of the same template response.He is now furious and e mailed HMRC saying...either you answer the questions Ive asked or Ill ask them on the floor of the House of Commons.

We are now getting somewhere.

I also sent him the article written by Phil posted somewhere on this forum, what I need now are more articles, especially pointing out why the HMRC has lied....thinking particularly here that they say you can avoid the LC by paying back the loans but Webberg says you can't avoid tax...albeit in another form under the DR rules.Clearly this will add fuel to his fire and Im hoping I can persuade him to call a meeting of those who signed the EDM and those that were minded to but didnt for all the reasons they gave and then collectively they might be able to bring some pressure to bear....particularly on the retrospection angle , the sheer bloody mindedness of HMRC and the unfairness in the time frames as set out.

Even if we just got the timescale reduced to 4 years from the Royal Assent and open years under enquiry that would be a major step forward... and might be something that could be done without causing the government an embarrassing u turn.

[Endofdays]

My Mp ( a government whip) has now written to Stride....got the template response, so he wrote to the head of HMRC and got a rehashed version of the same template response.He is now furious and e mailed HMRC saying...either you answer the questions Ive asked or Ill ask them on the floor of the House of Commons.

We are now getting somewhere.

I also sent him the article written by Phil posted somewhere on this forum, what I need now are more articles, especially pointing out why the HMRC has lied....thinking particularly here that they say you can avoid the LC by paying back the loans but Webberg says you can't avoid tax...albeit in another form under the DR rules.Clearly this will add fuel to his fire and Im hoping I can persuade him to call a meeting of those who signed the EDM and those that were minded to but didnt for all the reasons they gave and then collectively they might be able to bring some pressure to bear....particularly on the retrospection angle , the sheer bloody mindedness of HMRC and the unfairness in the time frames as set out.

Even if we just got the timescale reduced to 4 years from the Royal Assent and open years under enquiry that would be a major step forward... and might be something that could be done without causing the government an embarrassing u turn.

Great work well I think it might good to point your mp to the latest heartbreaking tweets by Phil@dws regarding one his clients treatment by these "people" alarming, upsetting and disgraceful.

[QCApproved]

CBTS - If you email the LCAG they have a number of articles that you could send on - If you would prefer to PM I can dig some out too, There is an excellent one on the Enterprise Tax website.
Well done
The inequity of the LC is obvious once explained and put in context.

Please continue to do this everyone - write arrange a meeting and reach for help and materials

[rshome]

Response from my MP

Hi All

I wrote to my MP but he wasn't willing to sign the EDM. He said he is willing to liaise with HMRC on my behalf but has no power to waiver any tax bill. So not really sure if he will be much help. Here is his response.

"..Many thanks for getting in touch.

Thank you for letting me know of your support for the EDM, but unfortunately as a Minister it’s not standard policy for me to sign them. I also actually don't agree with EDMs for reasons which I would be happy to explain if you'd like.

I'm very sorry to hear that you’re having great financial worries as a result of this policy and I would be very happy to help you with this. I've had a lot of feedback on this issue and so have discussed this at length with Treasury Ministers.

They've explained to me that the 2019 Loan Charge aims at tackling tax avoidance and evasion. This priority has meant that since 2010, over £175 billion of tax revenues have been protected which makes our tax gap fall at a record low of 6% which I do fully support.

I appreciate your strong feelings about this, but they’ve explained to me that the Government has felt that disguised remuneration schemes were a form of tax avoidance as it’s meant that people are taking home almost all of their pay tax-free whilst also benefiting from state pensions, tax credits and reduced student loan repayments etc. which cost the Government hundreds of millions of pounds a year. They’ve explained that under such schemes, the remainder of that income was then described as a tax-free loan, often from abroad, despite the payment really being the same as employment income. This is why a loan charge has been applied.

In 2016 the Government announced a grace period of 3 years so that people in these schemes could reach a settlement with HMRC up until April 2019. You mentioned that this is retrospective tax, but this isn’t the case as it doesn’t change the tax position for scheme users in the year their income was received. The charge is a new charge that will be owed at a future date and doesn’t change the tax position of any previous year.

As these schemes have always been illegal, the tax had always been due and so isn’t retrospective, HMRC and the Treasury are just clamping down on the schemes, which is what Mel Stride had said in the Chamber recently. I know that users of the schemes were often told that they were lawful, but they have unfortunately always been tax avoidance and tax was also due under the law. HMRC have been very vocal about warning people of such schemes over the years.

Having spoken with them, they do have support for those who are in genuine financial difficulty and are able to support people who are worried about their tax affairs because of this policy. If you had wanted me to help you liaise with them for support in your case, then please do let me know as I would be more than happy to if you are feeling you’ve been treated in a way that puts too much pressure. They assured me that they will take all personal circumstances into account.

I would be very happy to help in any way I can with your specific circumstances if you wanted me to. Of course I have no control over tax bills, but I can liaise with HMRC for you. Please do just let me know.

Thanks again for your email. Please let me know if you’d like to speak about this or anything else further as I would be more than happy to.
.."

[Calmbeforethestorm]

Hi All

I wrote to my MP but he wasn't willing to sign the EDM. He said he is willing to liaise with HMRC on my behalf but has no power to waiver any tax bill. So not really sure if he will be much help. Here is his response.

"..Many thanks for getting in touch.

Thank you for letting me know of your support for the EDM, but unfortunately as a Minister it’s not standard policy for me to sign them. I also actually don't agree with EDMs for reasons which I would be happy to explain if you'd like.

I'm very sorry to hear that you’re having great financial worries as a result of this policy and I would be very happy to help you with this. I've had a lot of feedback on this issue and so have discussed this at length with Treasury Ministers.

They've explained to me that the 2019 Loan Charge aims at tackling tax avoidance and evasion. This priority has meant that since 2010, over £175 billion of tax revenues have been protected which makes our tax gap fall at a record low of 6% which I do fully support.

I appreciate your strong feelings about this, but they’ve explained to me that the Government has felt that disguised remuneration schemes were a form of tax avoidance as it’s meant that people are taking home almost all of their pay tax-free whilst also benefiting from state pensions, tax credits and reduced student loan repayments etc. which cost the Government hundreds of millions of pounds a year. They’ve explained that under such schemes, the remainder of that income was then described as a tax-free loan, often from abroad, despite the payment really being the same as employment income. This is why a loan charge has been applied.

In 2016 the Government announced a grace period of 3 years so that people in these schemes could reach a settlement with HMRC up until April 2019. You mentioned that this is retrospective tax, but this isn’t the case as it doesn’t change the tax position for scheme users in the year their income was received. The charge is a new charge that will be owed at a future date and doesn’t change the tax position of any previous year.

As these schemes have always been illegal, the tax had always been due and so isn’t retrospective, HMRC and the Treasury are just clamping down on the schemes, which is what Mel Stride had said in the Chamber recently. I know that users of the schemes were often told that they were lawful, but they have unfortunately always been tax avoidance and tax was also due under the law. HMRC have been very vocal about warning people of such schemes over the years.

Having spoken with them, they do have support for those who are in genuine financial difficulty and are able to support people who are worried about their tax affairs because of this policy. If you had wanted me to help you liaise with them for support in your case, then please do let me know as I would be more than happy to if you are feeling you’ve been treated in a way that puts too much pressure. They assured me that they will take all personal circumstances into account.

I would be very happy to help in any way I can with your specific circumstances if you wanted me to. Of course I have no control over tax bills, but I can liaise with HMRC for you. Please do just let me know.

Thanks again for your email. Please let me know if you’d like to speak about this or anything else further as I would be more than happy to.
.."

Who was this MP?

He seems to be missing the point that HMRC are going back 20 years.

They may have a point in arguing that since the onset of DR legislation in 2010/11 there should have been a general awareness of some sort of crackdown and since 2016 anyone doing loans ought to have realised it would be troublesome as it was in the original FA that year that got shelved.

HMRC are also wilfully neglecting the fact that they have bent the Rangers case rulings to suit their needs and they are doing nothing against employers.... probably knowing full well that they are one of them.

[QCApproved]

This is the latest revised standard cut and paste that HMRC send out via Mel and the Treasury that ignores most of the key issues and seeks to distract from them in fact.
Unfortunately you will have to take your MP on an educative journey through detailed rebuttal and further info.
Ultimately he will realise whether he likes it or not that HMRC and a number of figures have been key actors or rather inactors in this and the inequity should be manifest.

There is a phrase that is being more and more common and it is:"Its not clear to me what HMRC have been doing in the interim" (!)

The Loan Charge action Group can support you with guidance and materials to do

[Lurker99]

This is the latest revised standard cut and paste that HMRC send out via Mel and the Treasury that ignores most of the key issues and seeks to distract from them in fact.
Unfortunately you will have to take your MP on an educative journey through detailed rebuttal and further info.
Ultimately he will realise whether he likes it or not that HMRC and a number of figures have been key actors or rather inactors in this and the inequity should be manifest.

There is a phrase that is being more and more common and it is:"Its not clear to me what HMRC have been doing in the interim" (!)

The Loan Charge action Group can support you with guidance and materials to do

My MP replied with same cut and paste from HMRC without even bothering to add ant personally touches, took him probably two months as well. He like a lot needs to investigate more and not just accept. I'll reply with material from LCAG and here.