HMRC settlement Deadlines/delays and the LC

[rshome]

Disagree as hmrc have already had notice on self assement returns. If they don't contact you it's on themTHe loan charge is NOT in effect in this moment in time. Revisit this after April 2019 a lot will happen before then

Is this not asking for trouble though? it will be much more expensive by the sounds of things if one was to wait to be hit by the 2019 charge, rather than arranging to settle beforehand?

[webberg]

Disagree as hmrc have already had notice on self assement returns. If they don't contact you it's on them legally as there is no legal framework at this stage they can pursue only Supreme Court ruling is on the employer. THe loan charge is NOT in effect in this moment in time. Revisit this after April 2019 a lot will happen before then

You can disagree all you like but if the law asks you to disclose to HMRC loan balances that are the basis of a tax charge, and you do not, then you will have to deal with the consequences.

An employer advising HMRC of loans made for the purposes of their own employer compliance, is NOT you complying with your obligations.

The loan charge is on the employer, that's true, but the transfer provisions are a lot more extensive than the usual PAYE rules and at the moment at least HMRC say that they will - in most cases - look to the employee.

If you are planning on not meeting your legal obligations, take advice as to the consequences.

[Mrcurrey]

You can disagree all you like but if the law asks you to disclose to HMRC loan balances that are the basis of a tax charge, and you do not, then you will have to deal with the consequences.

An employer advising HMRC of loans made for the purposes of their own employer compliance, is NOT you complying with your obligations.

The loan charge is on the employer, that's true, but the transfer provisions are a lot more extensive than the usual PAYE rules and at the moment at least HMRC say that they will - in most cases - look to the employee.

If you are planning on not meeting your legal obligations, take advice as to the consequences.

As Iv said there is no law in place that applies before April 2019 that meets the criteria of having to come out and say "i had a loan" or you must disclose any outstanding loan balance. There is no law or legalisation for this just hmrc speculative prospecting. Just because someone asks doesn't mean it's backed by law.
Please show me and reference the applicable law?

[Iter]

They aren’t saying to declare ‘now’. The law states that you will after April 19 if you have any outstanding loans. Which is why you need to decide now what is your preferred resolution.

[webberg]

As Iv said there is no law in place that applies before April 2019 that meets the criteria of having to come out and say "i had a loan" or you must disclose any outstanding loan balance. There is no law or legalisation for this just hmrc speculative prospecting. Just because someone asks doesn't mean it's backed by law.
Please show me and reference the applicable law?

Have a red of Schedule 11 and 12 F(No 2) A 2017 where the loan charge is described.

This also includes how the disclosure is to be, by whom and when.

Your obligation is to disclose to the employer. In the event that the employer does not exist or you consider it unlikely that they will comply, then the obligation falls to you.

We understand that the SATR for 18/19 will contain a box for balances to be disclosed.

We're not discussing what might be or could be, this is the law.

Clearly you are aware of the obligation now and as I said, if you choose to ignore or contest it, that's your prerogative but be aware of the consequences.

[Delendog]

Have a red of Schedule 11 and 12 F(No 2) A 2017 where the loan charge is described.

This also includes how the disclosure is to be, by whom and when.

Your obligation is to disclose to the employer. In the event that the employer does not exist or you consider it unlikely that they will comply, then the obligation falls to you.

We understand that the SATR for 18/19 will contain a box for balances to be disclosed.

We're not discussing what might be or could be, this is the law.

Clearly you are aware of the obligation now and as I said, if you choose to ignore or contest it, that's your prerogative but be aware of the consequences.

I believe you have crossed wires the poster is saying there is no law saying you have to declare loans until the 2019 loan charge states.

[Mrcurrey]

I believe you have crossed wires the poster is saying there is no law saying you have to declare loans until the 2019 loan charge states.

Correct as until the charge is activated there is no legal obligation to declare before this date. A lot will change before now and then .

So my point is right now there is no enforceable legal obligation to declare anything

And let's be real, if you haven't had a letter after the 2019 loancharge if it still is applicable. 50,000 - 80,000 people aren't going to be reading the 2017 finance bill. No judge would expect that either.

[RickG]

The choice is to declare now or be hit with higher charges later. Just like they used to do with parking charges, causing most people to pay a lower charge now than risk a higher charge later, even though many of them had sufficient grounds to appeal.

[Mrcurrey]

The choice is to declare now or be hit with higher charges later. Just like they used to do with parking charges, causing most people to pay a lower charge now than risk a higher charge later, even though many of them had sufficient grounds to appeal.

That's a classic phycological technique by hmrc. This is no parking ticket. They will keep moving the goal posts until defeated by First loan charge court case. For many an alleged penalty or extra charge will make zero difference it's bankruptcy, time to pay or counter claim against promoter / accountant / tax advisor .

A retrospective taxation It's plain and simply wrong both morally and the statements Mel stride is throwin around are also contradictory.

hmrc brexit cock ups amoungst other things have thrown the department into utter chaos (await whilst blowing statements to come shortly)

Expect mis calculations, lost paperwork, templated responses, threats and errors from them.

This will go on for many many years until case law sets president.

They will also have to prove regulation 80 that they have done absolutely everything to collect from the employer along with prosecutions of promoters (seek FOI)

Loan charge action group should be your first port of call.

Joint claim action is starting. There's a very strong case.

Everyone should think carefully before deciding what's best for them in their given circumstances. And seek legal guidance such as wtt consulting or Dow schofield watts.

And of course write to your mp and share edm by Stephen lloyd.

[QCApproved]

The above is a good summary if you have not done so please contact your MP and then begin a process of education and rebuttal with them on the inconsistent incorrect and templated responses - the Loan Charge Action Group can support you with that