Schemes like Vanquish which claim to bypass the Loan Charge

[phil@pmtc]

If someone was hell bent on avoiding the charge, and they asked me what would I do?

a) use a scheme to avoid it

b) emigrate to a country with no tax treaties with the UK

I would say (b) every time. That's how little confidence I have that any of these schemes will work.

I absolutely agree. As I’ve told all people that have called me these past few days, I would much rather people use my competitors ahead of my own services than attempt one of these schemes as I’d say there’s no chance at all of success.

[jsd]

Vanquish will Vanish......

check out -

https://www.dotas-scandal.org/what-is-the-2019-charge/

https://www.hmrcloancharge.info/

HMRC have an email for CL settlement pack ([email protected]) but how do you find out if your on their radar without blowing the whistle yourself?

Our best bet is clubbing together for a class action law suit

[webberg]

check out -

https://www.dotas-scandal.org/what-is-the-2019-charge/

https://www.hmrcloancharge.info/

HMRC have an email for CL settlement pack ([email protected]) but how do you find out if your on their radar without blowing the whistle yourself?

Our best bet is clubbing together for a class action law suit

Again, you do not have "to find out if your (sic) on their radar".

There is a legal obligation on the you and your employer to report to HMRC whether you have had loans within the rules. Ignorance of that law is not a defence.

See other threads about "clubbing together".

It's a frustration for firms like ours and other tax advisers that despite our best efforts, our client lists amount to perhaps 10% or 15% of the total impacted population.

Law firms who have run actions against APNs etc, usually have a small group of wealthy clients paying them. Again a small percentage.

I understand perfectly why individuals who have been advised to use schemes that are now leading to big bills, have a mistrust of the scheme providers and those who advised them to use the scheme.

The natural home therefore for the sort of mass funded class action (not sure what you want to challenge) is either the agencies you all used and probably still do, or one of the trade bodies.

The agencies have various trade organisations of their own. AppsCo is an example. Via their members (and ignoring for a moment the GDPR issues), they could be a conduit for getting a message out and coordinating a response.

Equally, contractor accounting firms who advertise here and umbrellas all have access to the sort of numbers needed.

Where are they?

Trade bodies? I'm aware that IPSE claims to have always been against the use of tax avoidance schemes and is reluctant to get involved now. Understandable. However, these schemes were not tax avoidance when you did them, are still not, tax avoidance is not illegal. I'm not a member of IPSE (and I'm not singling them out as I suspect other trade bodies might be in the same place) and cannot influence their policy.

You can though. Enough members making enough noise?

All of this should have happened 5 years ago, perhaps earlier.

Now there is urgency as the loan charge advances towards us at the speed of time and perhaps that spur will be enough to motivate and galvanise everybody to get involved.

Advertisement.

Within Big Group, there is a sub group called the Loan Charge Action Group.

You can join with them in their campaign.

You do not need to be in Big Group and you do not need to pay anything to any adviser to join.

I would encourage you to investigate.

[kev1n]

I absolutely agree. As I’ve told all people that have called me these past few days, I would much rather people use my competitors ahead of my own services than attempt one of these schemes as I’d say there’s no chance at all of success.

Hi Phil, any chance I could have a chat with you when you have time. New to this forum and joined specifically as I too am in this bloody mess. I need a bit of advice please.

[phil@pmtc]

Hi Phil, any chance I could have a chat with you when you have time. New to this forum and joined specifically as I too am in this bloody mess. I need a bit of advice please.

Yes of course, I’ll pm you my number and feel free to call tmorrow

[silverman]

Here's the problem.

No matter how plausible it sounds, you wouldn't want to just take their word for it that it will work.

They say it's supported by Tax Counsel opinion. They probably won't let you have a copy of the opinion but they might let you read it if you visited their office. Knowing the name of the Counsel would be useful because you could check out their credentials eg. how eminent they are.

Ask Vanquish what happens when HMRC inevitably challenge it (and they absolutely will). Would Vanquish defend it in court? Then you have to wonder if they'll still be around when the time comes. These companies have a habit of disappearing when the SHTF.

To improve your confidence level, you could obtain your own legal opinions on it but that will be very costly.

No matter how much due diligence you do, it will still be a gamble with very uncertain odds. If it goes wrong it could be very painful (hefty penalties).

I actually challenged Vanquish on the granularity of information that may be requested by HMRC under the automatic exchange of information rules in crown dependencies (per HMRC website) but got no response. I won't say too much on this forum about the scheme itself (as i understood it) but being told that my personal information won't be reported to HMRC because my account would have a nil balance seems too good to be true. My concern is that HMRC would request trustee/account holder listings with the related statements of accounts and find out what is going on. Vanquish was quite responsive about getting a down payment from me but then had no answer to common sense questions...

[jazzyg]

I actually challenged Vanquish on the granularity of information that may be requested by HMRC under the automatic exchange of information rules in crown dependencies (per HMRC website) but got no response. I won't say too much on this forum about the scheme itself (as i understood it) but being told that my personal information won't be reported to HMRC because my account would have a nil balance seems too good to be true. My concern is that HMRC would request trustee/account holder listings with the related statements of accounts and find out what is going on. Vanquish was quite responsive about getting a down payment from me but then had no answer to common sense questions...

Sad reality is that some people will still be falling further into the Rabbit hole of AML and such scheming providers!

[GUD]

Sign the petition please

Worth signing this petition if you oppose the 2019 Loan Charge. We need minimum 10,000 signatures.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/218582

The personal data of petitioner will not be published. Please do not worry about your details, a big IF, shared with HMRC. Don't forget that the scheme provider is going to pass your details anyways in Sep 2019.

[pateen]

Worth signing this petition if you oppose the 2019 Loan Charge. We need minimum 10,000 signatures.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/218582

The personal data of petitioner will not be published. Please do not worry about your details, a big IF, shared with HMRC. Don't forget that the scheme provider is going to pass your details anyways in Sep 2019.

Jesus, doesnt seem to be a mad rush to sign the petition.
Just signed it now but I'm guessing most ordinary folk could care less aboyut us scammers

[Finalwhistle]

Petition

Jesus, doesnt seem to be a mad rush to sign the petition.
Just signed it now but I'm guessing most ordinary folk could care less aboyut us scammers

Of course people not directly affected by the LC will not sign this, in addition they will have very little sympathy.. and who could argue with them. As on the face of it they will be thinking “well I paid my taxes, why shouldn’t you”.

Surely there must be 10,000 people registering for CLSO... how many you got in BG webberg??