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Overdrawn Capital Account Scheme (Aston Mae / Glen Mae / Procorre)

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    #71
    Originally posted by ITmark View Post
    My god, if you're still with them terminate today. Don't listen to any lies from them. I found it hard to get out but wished l've left a lot sooner.
    Definitely get out. I stopped sending them money a year ago, but did not cease being a partner. Procorre are now calling round with a new scheme - to buy your company over 3 years and take the debt (capital overdrawn account) with it. You will continue to pay them as they do it. Sounds like just another scam. I will post the salient points from the agreement they put into black and white for initial scheme - which they have not honoured. Perhaps we can get together enough people to sue them?

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      #72
      leaving procorre

      Originally posted by David991 View Post
      Definitely get out. I stopped sending them money a year ago, but did not cease being a partner. Procorre are now calling round with a new scheme - to buy your company over 3 years and take the debt (capital overdrawn account) with it. You will continue to pay them as they do it. Sounds like just another scam. I will post the salient points from the agreement they put into black and white for initial scheme - which they have not honoured. Perhaps we can get together enough people to sue them?
      As i understand it - leaving procorre could be done by winding up the limited co you are using with procorre, then setting up a new limited co. Might be wise to be shot of procorre's preferred accountants as well - nothing against sapphire or burnside but if you want a "clean break" then go elsewhere - others here suggest sjd.

      Clean break means new limited co, new contract, new accountants imho. welcome any comments.

      Or just stop using the ltd co and get a new contract instead on an umbrella / paye basis (least hassle?)
      Last edited by dog; 17 January 2018, 17:41.

      Comment


        #73
        Information confirmed from Procorre et al

        Here are some snippets from emails confirming how Procorre and other named parties would function. I took this as evidence along with verbal conversations. I was adamant that I would not participate in a load scheme - and was told that it was not.

        I welcome any comments or confirmations that other people got the same information.
        I’m not sure what good it will do, but any advice would be helpful.

        Regarding payments:
        1. ‘The remaining figure is then paid through the Partnership Payment of which 4% has been deducted.’
        - this is the fee to Procorre so all other monies should belong to the payee (contractor)?

        Regarding the letters from HMRC:
        2. ‘You do have nothing to worry about as HMRC as checking you used a loan scheme solution you did not.’.
        It appears that effectively it was.

        Regarding the partnership payments:
        3. ‘Partnership payments are payment from the LLP but they are responsible for this money and any tax due on it. A dividend is the equivalent payment from a Limited Company, but this is an LLP (Limited Liability Partnership) so it is called a partnership payment. When you receive the partnership payment there is no further tax due and the LLP has to do this and declares it on their own accounts.’.
        So that would mean that Procorre should pay the tax on the overdrawn capital account?

        And the most important point underpinning this:
        4. ‘The LLP will ensure that all taxes are paid so there is no need to predict your liability or make further payments to HMRC at the end of the year.’.
        It appears that this was not true at all. But it does appear to be a clear statement that Procorre are responsible for paying ‘all taxes’.

        Comment


          #74
          Originally posted by dog View Post
          As i understand it - leaving procorre could be done by winding up the limited co you are using with procorre, then setting up a new limited co. Might be wise to be shot of procorre's preferred accountants as well - nothing against sapphire or burnside but if you want a "clean break" then go elsewhere - others here suggest sjd.

          Clean break means new limited co, new contract, new accountants imho. welcome any comments.

          Or just stop using the ltd co and get a new contract instead on an umbrella / paye basis (least hassle?)
          In the case that the Limited company continues to run, but you do not make payments to the LLP are you bound to retrospectively make up any ‘missed’ payments?
          I work through a different Limited company than when with Procorre, but there was a period when I stopped payment due to their lack/total omission of answering questions, but still operated the Limited company (albeit without making dividend payments).

          Comment


            #75
            Whatsapp Group

            May I have PM access too so I can join the whatsapp group?

            I have had plenty of dealings with Procorre over the last couple years including face to face meetings with the first manically director and Head of Operations and can share these details. I’m also under a prolonged investigation from HMRC. They cleared my self assessments from first year with Procorre, 2nd currently being reviewed.

            Comment


              #76
              Originally posted by Jammyhl View Post
              May I have PM access too so I can join the whatsapp group?

              I have had plenty of dealings with Procorre over the last couple years including face to face meetings with the first manically director and Head of Operations and can share these details. I’m also under a prolonged investigation from HMRC. They cleared my self assessments from first year with Procorre, 2nd currently being reviewed.
              PM rights granted.

              Comment


                #77
                If you are paying more tax on top of that passed to the LLP how exactly is it working as intended? The statements I received is that the LLP payment covered ‘all’ taxes.
                If you are paying more then wouldn’t it have been better to have just stuck to your own Limited company?
                Last edited by administrator; 18 January 2018, 14:20. Reason: Quote removed.

                Comment


                  #78
                  Originally posted by David991 View Post
                  If you are paying more tax on top of that passed to the LLP how exactly is it working as intended? The statements I received is that the LLP payment covered ‘all’ taxes.
                  If you are paying more then wouldn’t it have been better to have just stuck to your own Limited company?
                  Hindsight is a wonderful thing...if only I knew then what I know now, I wouldn’t be in the situation I’m in. But I am, and I’m trying to deal with it in the most cost effective way open to me

                  The structure was always intending to declare Profit Share....
                  My take on it is that nobody (myself included) chose to acknowledge that, just focused on the short term gain.

                  The tax on the Profit Share is still less than what you would have paid at the time through your Ltd Co.

                  At the end of the day; this structure is/was not illegal. If it was we would be getting hit with Payment Notices/Demands instead of assessments and assumptions.

                  My point/question was; is the Profit Share declaration route going to satisfy HMRC that everything due is accounted for, resulting in the HMRC overinflated figures disappear?

                  Comment


                    #79
                    Originally posted by David991 View Post
                    Here are some snippets from emails confirming how Procorre and other named parties would function. I took this as evidence along with verbal conversations. I was adamant that I would not participate in a load scheme - and was told that it was not.

                    I welcome any comments or confirmations that other people got the same information.
                    I’m not sure what good it will do, but any advice would be helpful.

                    Regarding payments:
                    1. ‘The remaining figure is then paid through the Partnership Payment of which 4% has been deducted.’
                    - this is the fee to Procorre so all other monies should belong to the payee (contractor)?

                    Regarding the letters from HMRC:
                    2. ‘You do have nothing to worry about as HMRC as checking you used a loan scheme solution you did not.’.
                    It appears that effectively it was.

                    Regarding the partnership payments:
                    3. ‘Partnership payments are payment from the LLP but they are responsible for this money and any tax due on it. A dividend is the equivalent payment from a Limited Company, but this is an LLP (Limited Liability Partnership) so it is called a partnership payment. When you receive the partnership payment there is no further tax due and the LLP has to do this and declares it on their own accounts.’.
                    So that would mean that Procorre should pay the tax on the overdrawn capital account?

                    And the most important point underpinning this:
                    4. ‘The LLP will ensure that all taxes are paid so there is no need to predict your liability or make further payments to HMRC at the end of the year.’.
                    It appears that this was not true at all. But it does appear to be a clear statement that Procorre are responsible for paying ‘all taxes’.
                    In the case of Glen May LLP your number 4 above: Glen May LLP has decided not to contribute towards the tax liability arising from the Glen May profit share that people are putting on their 1617 tax return (payment due to HMRC on 31 Jan 2018). HMRC collects tax based on profit share. This tax is paid by contractors not the LLP.
                    Last edited by dog; 18 January 2018, 18:27.

                    Comment


                      #80
                      There are a number of actual and potential issues with this series of partnership structures.

                      At heart however, they look like a deferment scheme.

                      In other words back in the day you had cash by no tax liability, but more recently, you have tax liability without cash.

                      In terms of whether this constitutes what HMRC might term avoidance, I think it does. Whilst a definition of "avoidance" remains elusive, if you look at a definition for tax advantage, (used in DOTAS rules) it includes the deferring or postponing of a liability.
                      Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.

                      (No, me neither).

                      Comment

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